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 Topic: Quran miracle, all bee workers are girlies

 (Read 3728 times)
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  • Quran miracle, all bee workers are girlies
     OP - April 12, 2010, 05:00 PM

    16:68 - And thy Lord inspired the bee

    What is the Arabic word for bee in this verse, and is there a plain and simple Arabic language reason that it should be written as feminine?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Quran miracle, all bee workers are girlies
     Reply #1 - April 12, 2010, 05:12 PM

    Never forget that those coincidences (like many miracles) are always highly selective:

    If it somehow can be used to proof the quran, it is used. If it does not support the quran, it is discharted.

    Then it is simple math:

    If a book makes many statements about nature, some of them (or actucally interpretations of some of them) are simply true by chance. Others are not - but if you only present those which are true, you always get a nice "list of miracles". This sort of selective interpretation then falsely gives the impression, that there is anything special about the original text. Selective interpretation is a form of cheating.

    UG

  • Re: Quran miracle, all bee workers are girlies
     Reply #2 - April 12, 2010, 06:29 PM

    Never forget that those coincidences (like many miracles) are always highly selective:

    If it somehow can be used to proof the quran, it is used. If it does not support the quran, it is discharted.

    Then it is simple math:

    If a book makes many statements about nature, some of them (or actucally interpretations of some of them) are simply true by chance. Others are not - but if you only present those which are true, you always get a nice "list of miracles". This sort of selective interpretation then falsely gives the impression, that there is anything special about the original text. Selective interpretation is a form of cheating.

    UG




    Yeah, I'm aware of data bias, I just wondered if there was a simple reason.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Quran miracle, all bee workers are girlies
     Reply #3 - April 12, 2010, 06:30 PM

    It's the same word as the chapter title, an-nahl (ٱلنَّحْلِ).

    Some languages just have masculine/feminine/neuter nouns. Big whoop. The Slavic word for bee ('pchela' (пчела) in Russian and 'pszczoła' in Polish) is also feminine.
  • Re: Quran miracle, all bee workers are girlies
     Reply #4 - April 12, 2010, 06:48 PM

    It's the same word as the chapter title, an-nahl (ٱلنَّحْلِ).

    Some languages just have masculine/feminine/neuter nouns. Big whoop. The Slavic word for bee ('pchela' (пчела) in Russian and 'pszczoła' in Polish) is also feminine.


    Thanks zebedee.  That's exactly what I suspected it would be.  My English/Arabic dictionary says Nahl, and I can't see a "ta" or anything on the end of the Arabic word so I assumed it must be that it is a Moon letter or something that makes the "miracle claimer" state it is a female variation; when the truth is that it is just a female word.

    Thanks for confirming that.  FFS Smiley

    These Harun Yahya miracle videos are fun - I think I might debunk them for a bit of fun.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Quran miracle, all bee workers are girlies
     Reply #5 - April 12, 2010, 07:05 PM

    Thanks zebedee.  That's exactly what I suspected it would be.  My English/Arabic dictionary says Nahl, and I can't see a "ta" or anything on the end of the Arabic word so I assumed it must be that it is a Moon letter or something that makes the "miracle claimer" state it is a female variation; when the truth is that it is just a female word.

    Thanks for confirming that.  FFS Smiley

    These Harun Yahya miracle videos are fun - I think I might debunk them for a bit of fun.


    You're welcome.

    And good luck with your debunking. They come up with new miracles on an hourly basis so you've certainly got your work cut out for you.  Afro
  • Re: Quran miracle, all bee workers are girlies
     Reply #6 - April 12, 2010, 07:10 PM

    وَأَوْحَى رَبُّكَ إِلَى النَّحْلِ أَنِ اتَّخِذِي مِنَ الْجِبَالِ بُيُوتًا وَمِنَ الشَّجَرِ وَمِمَّا يَعْرِشُونَ

    It's a collective noun and feminine because it indicates a plural.
  • Re: Quran miracle, all bee workers are girlies
     Reply #7 - April 12, 2010, 07:43 PM

    وَأَوْحَى رَبُّكَ إِلَى النَّحْلِ أَنِ اتَّخِذِي مِنَ الْجِبَالِ بُيُوتًا وَمِنَ الشَّجَرِ وَمِمَّا يَعْرِشُونَ

    It's a collective noun and feminine because it indicates a plural.


    So actually... Allah's saying that all bees are female?

    So much for creating everything in pairs.
  • Re: Quran miracle, all bee workers are girlies
     Reply #8 - April 12, 2010, 07:46 PM

    No the feminine is used generally for plurals of animals and inanimate objects.
  • Re: Quran miracle, all bee workers are girlies
     Reply #9 - April 12, 2010, 08:16 PM

    Oh, I see. Thanks.
  • Re: Quran miracle, all bee workers are girlies
     Reply #10 - April 12, 2010, 08:27 PM

    Quote
    Hassan: No the feminine is used generally for plurals of animals and inanimate objects.

    That is good to know dear Hassan., on that "feminine" gender let me give you the verse  4:15   
    Quote

    وَاللاَّتِي يَأْتِينَ الْفَاحِشَةَ مِن نِّسَآئِكُمْ فَاسْتَشْهِدُواْ عَلَيْهِنَّ أَرْبَعةً مِّنكُمْ فَإِن شَهِدُواْ فَأَمْسِكُوهُنَّ فِي الْبُيُوتِ حَتَّىَ يَتَوَفَّاهُنَّ الْمَوْتُ أَوْ يَجْعَلَ اللّهُ لَهُنَّ سَبِيلاً     


    And those who commit indecency from among your women, then bring against them our witnesses from among you. And if they testify against them, then confine them to houses until death takes them or (until) Allah makes for them a way.
    [Al Quran ; 4:15]

     Now the question is  about these four witnesses., Are these  witnesses  male or female witnesses??

    Let me give some  translations of that 4:15 where they consider it as four  male witnesses
    Quote
    [Al-Muntakhab]:   And those of your women who commit themselves to acts of sexual immorality shall be punished on the credit of four witnesses of your men  (co-religionists) who are known to recourse to general principles of justice. Should these men attest to the truth of the act, then confine them indoors (or in-doors) until death claims them or until Allah ordains for them a special providence (construed to mean repentance and marriage)

    Wahiduddin Khan:  If any of your women commit fornication, call in  four male witnesses  from among yourselves against them; if they testify to their guilt, confine them to the house until death releases them or until God gives them another way out

    Tahir al-Qadri: And those of your women who commit adultery, call in from your men four witnesses  against them. Then if they produce evidence, confine those women to their houses till death completes their term of life or Allah ordains a way (i.e. a new injunction) for them.

    Muhammad Aqib Farid Qadri:  And take testimony from four chosen men amongst you , against the women among you who commit adultery; and if they testify, confine those women in the houses until death takes them away or Allah creates a solution for them.

    Faridul Haque:   And take testimony from  four chosen men amongst you, against the women among you who commit adultery; and if they testify, confine those women in the houses until death takes them away or Allah creates a solution for them.

    Ali Ünal: Such of your women as have committed indecency (unlawful sex),  there must be four male witnesses of you   who (having seen them in the act) will testify against them (within one succeeding month in towns and six months in the rural areas). If they do bear witness, then confine those women to their houses until death takes them away or God opens some way for them

    So question is is that verse referring to female witnesses or male witnesses or both??  Please do a true translation of the verse with  your own Arabic background..
     

    with best regards
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Quran miracle, all bee workers are girlies
     Reply #11 - April 12, 2010, 08:39 PM

    شَهِدُواْ

    The verb above that refers to the witnesses is in the masculine plural. However - linguistically - the masculine plural can either refer to all men or a mixture of men and women as the masculine takes precedence over the feminine in language in cases such as a mixed group.

    So technically it could refer to men and women.

    Though I believe Shari'ah stipulates that they be 4 male witnesses - I'll check that for you later.
  • Re: Quran miracle, all bee workers are girlies
     Reply #12 - April 12, 2010, 09:36 PM

    It's definitely 4 male witnesses - just checked the tafseers and they all say that.

    Besides, since a woman's testimony is half a man's then including women in that 4 would make no sense.

  • Re: Quran miracle, all bee workers are girlies
     Reply #13 - April 12, 2010, 10:06 PM

    It's definitely 4 male witnesses - just checked the tafseers and they all say that.

    Besides, since a woman's testimony is half a man's then including women in that 4 would make no sense.




    I remember it as 4 male witnesses, it occurred after Aisha was accused of shagging some bloke didn't it?  Muhammad stressed over it for about a week before Allah told him she hadn't done the dirty - and so Muhammad told people not to spread nasty rumours and make sure they have 4 witnesses before making such a claim in the future.  Allah can be an inconsiderate bastard at times, can't he? Smiley

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Quran miracle, all bee workers are girlies
     Reply #14 - April 12, 2010, 10:27 PM

    I remember it as 4 male witnesses, it occurred after Aisha was accused of shagging some bloke didn't it?  Muhammad stressed over it for about a week before Allah told him she hadn't done the dirty - and so Muhammad told people not to spread nasty rumours and make sure they have 4 witnesses before making such a claim in the future.  Allah can be an inconsiderate bastard at times, can't he? Smiley


    That episode more than any other shows that the Qur'an are the words of Muhammad. I remember reading Zamakhshari's tafseer saying that he never saw Allah so angry as he is in those verses.

    Yes... Allah was angry...  Roll Eyes
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