The Quran - Muhammad's geocentric universe

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- TheRationalizer
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The Quran - Muhammad's geocentric universe
OP - April 12, 2010, 09:21 PM

This is unfinished, no video. I just wanted to run it past you guys to see what you thought so that I could get in any script changes before spending time on the audio.

Any feedback would be appreciated, if nobody can think of any convincing changes required I'll just get straight on and add some visuals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_private?v=GnAUXvW7C-8&sharing_token=0c6WFFBpaLOrX4EjUm87Sw

Cheers

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
- Zebedee
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Re: The Quran - Muhammad's geocentric universe
Reply #1 - April 12, 2010, 09:54 PM

Yeah, so I gave it a listen and it's pretty good.

It's quite long though, so maybe you could shorten it by making it more concise.

Also, it might be worth quoting the ahadith that mention that the sun prostrates under Allah's throne... just to further show the sheer ridiculousness of Muhammad's understanding of the universe.

Sahih Bukhari

Volume 9, Book 93, Number 520
Volume 9, Book 93, Number 528
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421
- TheRationalizer
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Re: The Quran - Muhammad's geocentric universe
Reply #2 - April 12, 2010, 10:04 PM

Quote from: Zebedee on April 12, 2010, 09:54 PM
Yeah, so I gave it a listen and it's pretty good.

It's quite long though, so maybe you could shorten it by making it more concise.

Also, it might be worth quoting the ahadith that mention that the sun prostrates under Allah's throne... just to further show the sheer ridiculousness of Muhammad's understanding of the universe.

Sahih Bukhari

Volume 9, Book 93, Number 520
Volume 9, Book 93, Number 528
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421

It's hard really to shorten it and still make the point. I've already cut the script down from 20 minutes

Does it make sense? Is it convincing?

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
- Zebedee
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Re: The Quran - Muhammad's geocentric universe
Reply #3 - April 12, 2010, 10:26 PM

Quote from: TheRationalizer on April 12, 2010, 10:04 PM
It's hard really to shorten it and still make the point. I've already cut the script down from 20 minutes

Does it make sense? Is it convincing?

Yes, the Qur'anic verses you quote certainly make it look like Muhammad was talking about a geocentric universe. But it's always good to include Muhammad's own words to clarify what the Qur'an is talking about, hence why I recommended the hadith.

Although, Muslims will probably claim that the 'joining of the sun and moon' is simply metaphorical for an eclipse, and is not literally the result of the two meeting in space.
- TheRationalizer
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Re: The Quran - Muhammad's geocentric universe
Reply #4 - April 13, 2010, 08:01 AM

Quote from: Zebedee on April 12, 2010, 10:26 PM
Yes, the Qur'anic verses you quote certainly make it look like Muhammad was talking about a geocentric universe.

I'm a bit concerned that it might be a bit hard to follow due to the amount of talking. I am considering instructing the viewer to pause the video whenever they see (pause) and to read the Quran verse on screen before continuing. That way they get to read it and mentally digest it at their own speed before continuing and I get more time to talk about the verse.

Quote from: Zebedee on April 12, 2010, 10:26 PM
But it's always good to include Muhammad's own words to clarify what the Qur'an is talking about, hence why I recommended the hadith.

The problem is that Muslims will dismiss any hadith out of hand if they don't like it, and that will discredit the whole video. The only reason I used the two that I did was because they corroborate the words which appear within the Quran and the unquestionable historical event of a solar eclipse.

Quote from: Zebedee on April 12, 2010, 10:26 PM
Although, Muslims will probably claim that the 'joining of the sun and moon' is simply metaphorical for an eclipse, and is not literally the result of the two meeting in space.

I'm okay with that, because the Quran still says it will be the end of ALL creation.

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
- Zebedee
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Re: The Quran - Muhammad's geocentric universe
Reply #5 - April 13, 2010, 11:24 AM

Quote from: TheRationalizer on April 13, 2010, 08:01 AM
I'm a bit concerned that it might be a bit hard to follow due to the amount of talking. I am considering instructing the viewer to pause the video whenever they see (pause) and to read the Quran verse on screen before continuing. That way they get to read it and mentally digest it at their own speed before continuing and I get more time to talk about the verse.

The problem is that Muslims will dismiss any hadith out of hand if they don't like it, and that will discredit the whole video. The only reason I used the two that I did was because they corroborate the words which appear within the Quran and the unquestionable historical event of a solar eclipse.

I'm okay with that, because the Quran still says it will be the end of ALL creation.

Yes, it might be a good idea just to show the verses, rather than reading them all out. You could save some time too.

And I doubt Muslims will dismiss these hadith, as they're 'mutawatir.' Unless of course, you're dealing with a Qur'an-only, but most Muslims aren't anyway.

But in any event, it is entirely up to you what you do. It was just a suggestion.
- cosmicdancer
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Re: The Quran - Muhammad's geocentric universe
Reply #6 - April 13, 2010, 01:27 PM

Am in The Elgin - Ladbroke Grove having a pint and lunch and would love to listen but don't have my headphones and would rather not disturb others - will have a listen this eve if I have time.
- TheRationalizer
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Re: The Quran - Muhammad's geocentric universe
Reply #7 - April 13, 2010, 01:38 PM

Quote from: Hassan on April 13, 2010, 01:27 PM
Am in The Elgin - Ladbroke Grove having a pint and lunch and would love to listen but don't have my headphones and would rather not disturb others - will have a listen this eve if I have time.

If I lived nearby I'd meet you for a pint. But no, don't listen to Quran verses out loud in a pub, people will think you're a suicide bomber

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
- cosmicdancer
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Re: The Quran - Muhammad's geocentric universe
Reply #8 - April 13, 2010, 01:41 PM

Quote from: TheRationalizer on April 13, 2010, 01:38 PM
If I lived nearby I'd meet you for a pint

If I'm ever in your neck of the woods (Brum?) - or you down Oxford (where I live) then would love to meet up for a pint, mate
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