Fear in Muslims & Madrassas

12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
- HighOctane
- Ex-Muslim
- On the flr of Tokyo, or dwn in Lndn twn to go go
- offline
Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
OP - April 12, 2010, 10:21 PM

So my long bearded and devout uncle came over this evening and sensing I'm drifting from Islam he gave me the good ol' lecture on life after death, not to just think about this life, Mohammed was the last and best prophet, etc and I just though to myself on the 3rd or 4th time he mentioned hell it got me thinking; he's really just scared and full of fear. Shame really, I wonder how many lives could be changed if only the fear was cured through education. On the other hand, he probably kept lecturing me because it offended him I'm a Kaffir. Probably hated me deep down too as a knee-jerk reaction. The mind hijacking, darn it!

Interesting part is that he didn't become divout until his 30s, right now his son is 17 and goes to a boarding school Madrassa somehwere near Birmingham where in year 1 & 2 he learns arabic pronounciation & A level Maths, 3 & 4 learns Arabic/Urdu and 5 & 6 on the meaning of the Quran. 6 years! My uncle got an education and studied accountancy until the age of 24, and yet son son is being subjected to more propaganda than he was subjected to at 17.

Same thing is happening over in Bangaldesh, all my uncles who enjoyed decent a education are putting their kids through madrassas to extremes they weren't put through. Even my dad phoned them up and said "Look, I know it's not my business, but you should think about the future of your kids".

I'm sorry, just ranting about the demise of my dad's side of family thanks to Islam.

-->> DONATE TO CEMB

Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
- billy
- Pub Regular
- Tripitaka ~ Closet Juice
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #1 - April 12, 2010, 10:27 PM

I don't mean to be judgmental, but its a travesty that his son is receiving an education in Birmingham of a sort that he could have received in Bangladesh. That will not prepare him for life in a modern, secular, pluralistic society like Britain. That shall load him up with a resentments and mangle his mind. What a disgrace that is.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- Infidel
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #2 - April 12, 2010, 10:36 PM

You mean he's 17 now, and he will spend 6 more years studying all that crap before he could get to a Uni or full-time job?
I hope I am wrong, cuz that would suck big time.

"In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan
- allat
- Euphoria
- Administrator
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #3 - April 12, 2010, 10:51 PM

Wow that is not good, HightOctane.

"Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
- _truth_
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #4 - April 12, 2010, 11:03 PM

my mother's side family is demised by Sunni Salafi Islam. As an Bangladeshi-American Ex Muslim Atheist, dealing with them is a nightmare for me. I can relate to your last statement
- Zebedee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #5 - April 12, 2010, 11:06 PM

Makes me glad my family don't take religion seriously at all.
- kimo
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #6 - April 12, 2010, 11:12 PM

damn thats horrible, how the hell can a normal person find some decent education and ruin their kids future like that.. how can people not even see the beauty of diversity and multiculturalism. really sad and weird
- kimo
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #7 - April 12, 2010, 11:14 PM

Quote from: Zebedee on April 12, 2010, 11:06 PM
Makes me glad my family don't take religion seriously at all.

lucky #$%%^###
- kaiwai
- Pub Regular
- Meh, could be worse
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #8 - April 12, 2010, 11:43 PM

Quote from: HighOctane on April 12, 2010, 10:21 PM
So my long bearded and devout uncle came over this evening and sensing I'm drifting from Islam he gave me the good ol' lecture on life after death, not to just think about this life, Mohammed was the last and best prophet, etc and I just though to myself on the 3rd or 4th time he mentioned hell it got me thinking; he's really just scared and full of fear. Shame really, I wonder how many lives could be changed if only the fear was cured through education. On the other hand, he probably kept lecturing me because it offended him I'm a Kaffir. Probably hated me deep down too as a knee-jerk reaction. The mind hijacking, darn it!

Interesting part is that he didn't become divout until his 30s, right now his son is 17 and goes to a boarding school Madrassa somehwere near Birmingham where in year 1 & 2 he learns arabic pronounciation & A level Maths, 3 & 4 learns Arabic/Urdu and 5 & 6 on the meaning of the Quran. 6 years! My uncle got an education and studied accountancy until the age of 24, and yet son son is being subjected to more propaganda than he was subjected to at 17.

Same thing is happening over in Bangaldesh, all my uncles who enjoyed decent a education are putting their kids through madrassas to extremes they weren't put through. Even my dad phoned them up and said "Look, I know it's not my business, but you should think about the future of your kids".

I'm sorry, just ranting about the demise of my dad's side of family thanks to Islam.

The devoutness turns on when individuals suddenly realise their own mortality and it isn't something they can shift to the back of the mind as the day comes closer - they then project this insecurity onto their children. I think the travesty isn't the fact that they are religious but the fact that they're wilfully blind to the other religions out there whose claims are as just as genuine as his own.

Maybe he is trying to live his life through his son because he failed to do those things when he was that age so now he is living his life through his son in an attempt to make up for that lost time - what ever the case maybe it'll be interesting to see how his son comes out; whether he'll rebel against his father or whether he becomes yet another statistic in 5 years time when he blows himself on a commuter train or bus.

"It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
- Iraqi Atheist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #9 - April 13, 2010, 12:12 AM

That's just wrong. Fuck, even my aunt's Wahabi husband who live in Dubai sends his daughter to an English school. No offense but what the fuck is your uncle thinking ?
- TheRationalizer
- Pub Regular
- Gone - due to unfair moderation
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #10 - April 13, 2010, 08:14 AM

Thousands of years ago rich people used to pay scribs to write for them their own personal copy of "The book of the dead" which would ward off evil spirits and explain to them how to pass each of the after-life trials they would meet, so that they could attain beautiful gardens in which to reside for eternity rather than being devoured by a crocodile headed man.

It's sad that even today people think they can avoid the inevitability of death simply by repeating some magic words and not eating pigs, and now he is brainwashing his children, that's mental abuse and should be illegal along with circumcision.

I dread to think what they do to minds in those faith schools:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAj3oZZihsQ

It must have been very difficult for your uncle to sit with someone who just plain thought his fears were all rubbish. Wanting to discuss them with you so that he can "help" you, but scared that he might say or even think something which lands him in hell.

I had a 2 hour chat with a Muslim neighbour on Sunday. After 2 hours we concluded that he believed:
1: Any man who fucks a 9 year old i a sick bastard, except Muhammad.
2: Fucking a 9 year old girl is wrong, but he cannot say it is wrong.
3: Even if I presented him with irrefutable scientific evidence that the Quran was made up by Muhammad he would not change his mind.

That's bad.

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
- kaiwai
- Pub Regular
- Meh, could be worse
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #11 - April 13, 2010, 09:22 AM

All I can say is that it is unfortunate that bilal philips didn't die of prostate cancer when he had it - I would have danced on the fuckwitts grave.

At least with Anjem Choudary he doesn't mix words when compared to the charlatans such as bilal philips, yusuf estes etc.

"It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
- Nour
- Ex-Muslim
- Misanthropic ex-'revert'
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #12 - April 13, 2010, 09:59 AM

Quote from: kaiwai on April 12, 2010, 11:43 PM
Maybe he is trying to live his life through his son because he failed to do those things when he was that age so now he is living his life through his son in an attempt to make up for that lost time - what ever the case maybe it'll be interesting to see how his son comes out; whether he'll rebel against his father or whether he becomes yet another statistic in 5 years time when he blows himself on a commuter train or bus.

If that is his motive he is destined for failure. Trying to live one's life through one's children is not a healthy solution to ANY problem. I spent most of my teens and 20's rebelling against my mom's attempts to make me be her trophy daughter. As a result I have a severe mental complex which is almost debilitating regarding my mom.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

The sleeper has awakened - Dune

Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
- kaiwai
- Pub Regular
- Meh, could be worse
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #13 - April 13, 2010, 11:01 AM

Quote from: Nour on April 13, 2010, 09:59 AM
If that is his motive he is destined for failure. Trying to live one's life through one's children is not a healthy solution to ANY problem. I spent most of my teens and 20's rebelling against my mom's attempts to make me be her trophy daughter. As a result I have a severe mental complex which is almost debilitating regarding my mom.

Unfortunately I have seen many parents do it in New Zealand; parents living their rugby dreams through their one golden child whilst the rest are simply ignored. I know I would never want to have kids if for no other reason that I'd make a shit parent - I wish other parents took it up on themselves and were honest about how crap they would be if they were parents.

"It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
- cosmicdancer
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #14 - April 13, 2010, 11:19 AM

Quote from: HighOctane on April 12, 2010, 10:21 PM
he's really just scared and full of fear. Shame really, I wonder how many lives could be changed if only the fear was cured through education.

Yes, deep down it's simply fear that drives them - even though they will deny it. I had a discussion in the car with my ex the other day and I was saying how cruel this God is and she said 'he loves us and just wants us to love him back' and so I said 'he wants love by making us suffer!' and went into a bit of a rant about this 'loving' God and she said 'don't say that or God will just make things worse for you!' - it's just fear - that's all - fear of his punishment and making us suffer.

I felt like the guy in the Monty Python stoning scene:

"Make it worse! How could it be any worse? Jehova! Jehova! Jehova! Jehova! Jehova!..."
- TheRationalizer
- Pub Regular
- Gone - due to unfair moderation
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #15 - April 13, 2010, 11:46 AM

Quote from: Hassan on April 13, 2010, 11:19 AM
he wants love by making us suffer

Yes, it says so clearly in the Quran, but unfortunately I cannot find my bookmark for it

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
- TheRationalizer
- Pub Regular
- Gone - due to unfair moderation
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #16 - April 13, 2010, 01:36 PM

2:155-157
And surely We shall try you with something of fear and hunger, and loss of wealth and lives and crops; but give glad tidings to the steadfast. Who say, when a misfortune striketh them: Lo! we are Allah's and lo! unto Him we are returning such are they on whom are blessings from their Lord, and mercy. Such are the rightly guided.

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
- cosmicdancer
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #17 - April 13, 2010, 01:39 PM

Yep God does this to make us love him:
- Nour
- Ex-Muslim
- Misanthropic ex-'revert'
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #18 - April 13, 2010, 03:05 PM

This topic makes me think of Sathnam Sanghera's autobiography The Boy With the Topknot.

Basically, he's the only one of a number of Sikh children in his family who wears the traditional turban and topknot because his mother had made some halfhearted attempt to redeem herself by pledging her son to the Sikh faith. From what I've seen this is a common practice in S. Asian families, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, etc. to pledge one child to the temple/madrassah/gurdwara, etc. in order to score brownie points with whichever deity they worship.

How many of you guys know someone who has either done this to their children or was the victim of being their parent's 'sacrifice' to Allah?

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

The sleeper has awakened - Dune

Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
- Nour
- Ex-Muslim
- Misanthropic ex-'revert'
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #19 - April 13, 2010, 03:05 PM

BTW Hassan, that's a very strong pic you posted above. Perhaps you should incorporate it into one of your vids?

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

The sleeper has awakened - Dune

Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
- Stardust
- Founder of Neo-Hippiism
- Ex-Muslim
- Beneath The Veil
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #20 - April 13, 2010, 03:14 PM

Quote from: Nour on April 13, 2010, 03:05 PM
This topic makes me think of Sathnam Sanghera's autobiography The Boy With the Topknot.

Basically, he's the only one of a number of Sikh children in his family who wears the traditional turban and topknot because his mother had made some halfhearted attempt to redeem herself by pledging her son to the Sikh faith. From what I've seen this is a common practice in S. Asian families, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, etc. to pledge one child to the temple/madrassah/gurdwara, etc. in order to score brownie points with whichever deity they worship.

How many of you guys know someone who has either done this to their children or was the victim of being their parent's 'sacrifice' to Allah?

I do, some relative did that to their youngest son I think and everyone was talking about it so proudly, I felt sorry for him. Although they were all 'wonderful etc' amognst each other they'd pretty much ignore him, he seemed like a lonely kid.

"Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
- billy
- Pub Regular
- Tripitaka ~ Closet Juice
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #21 - April 13, 2010, 03:43 PM

Quote from: Nour on April 13, 2010, 03:05 PM
This topic makes me think of Sathnam Sanghera's autobiography The Boy With the Topknot.

Basically, he's the only one of a number of Sikh children in his family who wears the traditional turban and topknot because his mother had made some halfhearted attempt to redeem herself by pledging her son to the Sikh faith. From what I've seen this is a common practice in S. Asian families, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, etc. to pledge one child to the temple/madrassah/gurdwara, etc. in order to score brownie points with whichever deity they worship.

How many of you guys know someone who has either done this to their children or was the victim of being their parent's 'sacrifice' to Allah?

I've read that book

I didn't get the impression that it was a sacrifical lamb kind of religiosity of this type though, his family sent him to grammar school and broke their backs to get him to Oxford University. Its of a different order than educating someone in a madrassa with an insular enclosed education like this one, that doesn't prepare you for life in modern Britain.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- Pariah
- Deviant
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #22 - April 13, 2010, 09:06 PM

I'm sorry you are feeling troubled by this. Unfortunately a muslim's greatest motivation is most definitely fear, their beautiful taqwa. Never once has my mother lectured me about islam and failed to mention fearing allah or hellfire. And do you know what, I think the truly religious ones deep down enjoy the feeling of fear because it assists them in keepng on the narrow path.

This reminds me of my brother and my young nephew who will be sent to madrassa this september. It broke my heart when I heard about it, there they were rejoicing and I felt so upset. What's most disconcerting is that my brother is quite a moderate muslim and he is the only one in my family who knows I don't observe hijab and dislike Islam, and he has taken this quite well. But now he is sending his kid to islamic school only 'cause my cultural muslim sis-in-law feels they must because they don't want to be the only family without pious children! It so damn twisted, it's disgusting. I asked my nephew what he thought about it and he just shrugged. He's a really bright kid and questions everything, I had such high hopes for him and now he'll be off to the islamic land of East London. Guess my brother feels that even though he's not very pious, at least he must guide his son on the right path.

'The greatest glory of living lies not in never falling but in rising everytime you fall'
- cosmicdancer
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #23 - April 13, 2010, 09:33 PM

Quote from: Nour on April 13, 2010, 03:05 PM
BTW Hassan, that's a very strong pic you posted above. Perhaps you should incorporate it into one of your vids?

Yes, I was thinking that - it says it all about God.
- allat
- Euphoria
- Administrator
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #24 - April 14, 2010, 01:50 AM

Quote from: Pariah on April 13, 2010, 09:06 PM
He's a really bright kid and questions everything, I had such high hopes for him and now he'll be off to the islamic land of East London. Guess my brother feels that even though he's not very pious, at least he must guide his son on the right path.

It sounds like a formality they are putting him through. Though he may just make it through, especially with a cool aunt and uncle to get inspired by. I wouldn't lose hope yet

"Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
- kaiwai
- Pub Regular
- Meh, could be worse
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #25 - April 14, 2010, 01:56 AM

Quote from: Pariah on April 13, 2010, 09:06 PM
I'm sorry you are feeling troubled by this. Unfortunately a muslim's greatest motivation is most definitely fear, their beautiful taqwa. Never once has my mother lectured me about islam and failed to mention fearing allah or hellfire. And do you know what, I think the truly religious ones deep down enjoy the feeling of fear because it assists them in keepng on the narrow path.

This reminds me of my brother and my young nephew who will be sent to madrassa this september. It broke my heart when I heard about it, there they were rejoicing and I felt so upset. What's most disconcerting is that my brother is quite a moderate muslim and he is the only one in my family who knows I don't observe hijab and dislike Islam, and he has taken this quite well. But now he is sending his kid to islamic school only 'cause my cultural muslim sis-in-law feels they must because they don't want to be the only family without pious children! It so damn twisted, it's disgusting. I asked my nephew what he thought about it and he just shrugged. He's a really bright kid and questions everything, I had such high hopes for him and now he'll be off to the islamic land of East London. Guess my brother feels that even though he's not very pious, at least he must guide his son on the right path.

Religious schools like that should be classified as child abuse. Its very clear that the only thing the parents care about is how high on the community totem poll they happen to be.

"It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
- Saathiya
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #26 - April 14, 2010, 03:07 AM

Okey I know this is kinda gonna sound racist and all but the arab and black muslims kinda scare me the most.
Im sorry, I'm sorry I apologize.
It's just that i've had some run in's with Arab Muslims and they're so brainwashed and if i say something i feel they will follow me home and kill my family.
I live close to Dearborn, MI and that's where Muslims and Arabs are the most populated so it's kinda scary for me.
OMG am i racist?!?!

"A good man is so hard to find but a hard man is so good to find"
- kaiwai
- Pub Regular
- Meh, could be worse
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #27 - April 14, 2010, 05:54 AM

Quote from: Saathiya on April 14, 2010, 03:07 AM
Okey I know this is kinda gonna sound racist and all but the arab and black muslims kinda scare me the most.
Im sorry, I'm sorry I apologize.
It's just that i've had some run in's with Arab Muslims and they're so brainwashed and if i say something i feel they will follow me home and kill my family.
I live close to Dearborn, MI and that's where Muslims and Arabs are the most populated so it's kinda scary for me.
OMG am i racist?!?!

I wouldn't say you're racist; maybe an irrational fear though.

Racism would be if you stated that one race was superior to another (which is what racism actually is - not merely just the criticism of a group of people).

"It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
- billy
- Pub Regular
- Tripitaka ~ Closet Juice
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #28 - April 14, 2010, 11:28 AM

Quote from: Saathiya on April 14, 2010, 03:07 AM
Okey I know this is kinda gonna sound racist and all but the arab and black muslims kinda scare me the most.
Im sorry, I'm sorry I apologize.
It's just that i've had some run in's with Arab Muslims and they're so brainwashed and if i say something i feel they will follow me home and kill my family.
I live close to Dearborn, MI and that's where Muslims and Arabs are the most populated so it's kinda scary for me.
OMG am i racist?!?!

Would you be less fearful of a dogmatic extremist Muslim who happened to be Indian than Arab? De-couple race from religion. There are lots of Arabs who are not religious, in fact, there are loads of Arabs (especially in America, I hear) who are not even Muslim, but are Christian.

I think you are just intimidated by especially aggressive forms of practised Islam, but you see that in many Muslims of different ethnicities.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- Iraqi Atheist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #29 - April 14, 2010, 02:31 PM

Only a quarter of Arab Americans are Muslim:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_American#Religious_background

Although from what I gathered Dearborn, MI is home to a very large Muslim Arab population.
12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »