Fear in Muslims & Madrassas

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- cosmicdancer
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Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #30 - April 14, 2010, 03:00 PM

Quote from: Saathiya on April 14, 2010, 03:07 AM
Okey I know this is kinda gonna sound racist and all but the arab and black muslims kinda scare me the most.
Im sorry, I'm sorry I apologize.
It's just that i've had some run in's with Arab Muslims and they're so brainwashed and if i say something i feel they will follow me home and kill my family.
I live close to Dearborn, MI and that's where Muslims and Arabs are the most populated so it's kinda scary for me.
OMG am i racist?!?!

No that's not racist. Relating one's experiences is fine.

Just remember that making generalisations about a whole race of people based on one's experiences is a mistake.
- HighOctane
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Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #31 - April 14, 2010, 11:14 PM

Hi all, interesting reponses, thanks all and no Saathiya I wouldn't say you are racist but I think fear can lead to irrationality which can lead to thinking irresponsibly, what Hassan said.

@billy - indeed. When I talked to him about the Madrassa, he could sense my negative opinion and for a polite chap he was slightely offended. He'll only feel more resentment as you say.
@Infidel - it does suck indeed. His only prospect from what he said was that graduates go on to be Madrassa teacher. :-(
@kimo - There's more, I'll write below
@Iraqi Atheist - Well to not be too rude, he not that successful, but even my other uncle of a similar outlook isn't as religious, the key difference I think is the succeptability to fear. Hmm, I think. Insecurity probably plays a part too.
@TheRationalizer - I think it was difficult for him talking to me. These Madrassas really should be closed for mental abuse, I'm serious. Come on now, 2 years studying arabic grammar which he can't even understand? Just beyond beleif!
@kaiwai - possibly, I wouldn't doubt it. My uncle was one of the youngest and has a vulnerbale characteristic to himself.
@Hassan - I really hope one day your ex realizes.
@Nour - that story makes sense!
@Pariah - Sorry to hear that.

This Madrassa btw charges about £2k a year since it is a boarding school. One realization recently was that it's the early years of a life that forms one's connections to the rest of society. The older one gets and the more closed off they become, the harder it is for them to integrate and tolerate others. The way he's got a beard at 17 and is wearing a long kurta already, I just see the odds against him. I did advise him having a good Maths A level can get him into uni.

So the other thing I wanted to mention was this sad peice: this same religious uncle mentioned here about 3 years ago was in Bangladesh with his daughter. She was 16 I think, heavily bought up with a strong Islamic doctrine. She started suffering from jaundice and wouldn't see a male doctor due to being embarassed. And, she passed away. One could blame the family why they didn't see a doctor sooner, but I do think that her embarassment to see a male doctor reduced her odds of survival.

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- billy
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Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #32 - April 14, 2010, 11:34 PM

God almighty HO, what a terrible story. Just horrible. The poor girl.

How can anybody condemn girls and boys from this country with so many opportunities and decent education systems the right to participate in them? And replace them with a medieval curriculum? Its almost child abuse!

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

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Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #33 - April 14, 2010, 11:40 PM

Quote from: HighOctane on April 14, 2010, 11:14 PM
She started suffering from jaundice and wouldn't see a male doctor due to being embarassed. And, she passed away. One could blame the family why they didn't see a doctor sooner, but I do think that her embarassment to see a male doctor reduced her odds of survival.

So sad - and yes I agree, the "Haya'" Islam approves of stunts so many people
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Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #34 - April 15, 2010, 10:58 PM

Haya - didn't know that, thanks.

@billy - It's hard to pinpoint where things are going wrong, many factors, but I think it largely stems from my uncles's fearful submission to Islam which acts as a good catalyst in the process (e.g. for his kids to be successful in this life rather than next).

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Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #35 - April 16, 2010, 05:15 PM

Quote from: HighOctane on April 15, 2010, 10:58 PM
Haya - didn't know that, thanks.

http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/Haya.htm

Haya (Shyness)

What is Haya?

Haya itself is derived from the word hayat which means life. This term covers a wide number of concepts. In English, it may be translated as modesty, shyness, self-respect, bashfulness, shame, honour, humility, etc. The original meaning of Haya according to a believer's nature, refers to a bad and uneasy feeling accompanied by embarrassment, caused by one's fear of being exposed or censured for some unworthy or indecent conduct.

Islamically Haya is an attribute which pushes the believer to avoid anything distasteful or abominable. It keeps him/her from being neglectful in giving everyone what is due upon them, and if for any reason he/she is not able to keep up with his/her commitment then they will feel extremely uncomfortable and ashamed about this. The reason being that he/she will have displeased Allah by breaking a commitment.

Haya plays a huge role in the lives of Muslims because it is a very important part of our Iman (faith/belief). If we do not have any form of haya within us then it is most likely that our Iman is very weak. For as it states in the following hadith:

Narrated by Abu Huraira (ra): The Prophet said, "Faith (Belief) consists of more than sixty branches (i.e. parts). And Haya is a part of faith." (Bukhari)

We also learn from the Prophet (saws) the importance of having haya and how it is not something to be ashamed of, but instead, one should be concerned and ashamed if they do not possess it within their character.

Narrated Abdullah ibn Umar (ra): The Prophet (saws) passed by a man who was admonishing his brother regarding Haya and was saying, "You are very shy, and I am afraid that might harm you." On that, Allah's Apostle said, "Leave him, for Haya is (a part) of Faith." (Bukhari)...

<snip>
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Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #36 - April 16, 2010, 06:56 PM

From the description above I get the impression that in reality, haya = fear.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

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Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #37 - April 16, 2010, 09:57 PM

Quote from: Hassan on April 16, 2010, 05:15 PM

Narrated Abdullah ibn Umar (ra): The Prophet (saws) passed by a man who was admonishing his brother regarding Haya and was saying, "You are very shy, and I am afraid that might harm you." On that, Allah's Apostle said, "Leave him, for Haya is (a part) of Faith." (Bukhari)...

Very interesting. Surprised I've never come across this. I think this is a very important social mechanism for Islam. I think that by ensuring followers remain shy, bashful and having shame then they are forced to lack courage and confidence and thereby increase the chance of being taken advantage of. Promoting lack of assertiveness is also serious. One could interpret that humility modesty, self-respect, honour are virtues however in this context they seems to be mingled in to make haya a good characteristic, which in other societies would be laughed at. My old primary school ran with the tag-line "Where children grow with knowledge and confidence". A Samurai's definitive characteristic is his self-assertiveness (like any soldier/warrior). Yet here we have shyness seen as a virtue and my only conclusion is to ensure the masses are brainwashed to this trait to keep submerged and deluded. Very interesting meme. Thanks again!

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Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #38 - April 17, 2010, 03:17 PM

Quote from: Nour on April 16, 2010, 06:56 PM
From the description above I get the impression that in reality, haya = fear.

Yes - and it is something especially prized in women (surprise, surprise). Any woman brave enough to look people in the eye, speak up and defend herself from being pushed around has no "Haya"
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Re: Fear in Muslims & Madrassas
Reply #39 - April 17, 2010, 03:20 PM

Quote from: HighOctane on April 16, 2010, 09:57 PM
Very interesting. Surprised I've never come across this. I think this is a very important social mechanism for Islam. I think that by ensuring followers remain shy, bashful and having shame then they are forced to lack courage and confidence and thereby increase the chance of being taken advantage of. Promoting lack of assertiveness is also serious. One could interpret that humility modesty, self-respect, honour are virtues however in this context they seems to be mingled in to make haya a good characteristic, which in other societies would be laughed at. My old primary school ran with the tag-line "Where children grow with knowledge and confidence". A Samurai's definitive characteristic is his self-assertiveness (like any soldier/warrior). Yet here we have shyness seen as a virtue and my only conclusion is to ensure the masses are brainwashed to this trait to keep submerged and deluded. Very interesting meme. Thanks again!

Yep - we don't want any bolshy types!
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