4:34 revisited

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- SE-man
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4:34 revisited
OP - April 18, 2010, 03:33 PM

Hi

I stumbled upon a video by Hamza Yusuf.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDEKJDgXO-U

Here he attempts to soften 4:34 into a verse that actually is trying to stop domestic violence by mandating two steps before it.

He also re-defines the word daraba into meaning basically anything.

If the verb has a human object, it seems to me from his examples that the common denominator is to inflict some kind of suffering on the object? Is this correctly understood?

He also says that Mo never hit his wifes. I remember a case of Aisha complaining that Mo hit her painfully in the chest. Is this one of those false hadeeths?

He is giving the impression of honestly trying to reshape the religion to fit into a civilised world. What is his successrate?
- billy
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Re: 4:34 revisited
Reply #1 - April 18, 2010, 03:38 PM

Was it on here that I read this guy used to give speeches about the dajjal coming to fix people up and crazy stuff like that?

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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- Zebedee
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Re: 4:34 revisited
Reply #2 - April 18, 2010, 03:49 PM

Quote from: billy on April 18, 2010, 03:38 PM
Was it on here that I read this guy used to give speeches about the dajjal coming to fix people up and crazy stuff like that?

Yes, he believes that the NWO is some kind of satanic organisation bent on destroying Islam.

He also said that Allah sunk the Titanic and blew up the Challenger space mission in order to teach people a lesson.

At the same time, it's kind of strange that this god of his attempts to put a stop to something by explicitly sanctioning it. Especially given the fact that Allah isn't exactly shy of saying 'don't do such-and-such.'
- SE-man
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Re: 4:34 revisited
Reply #3 - April 18, 2010, 04:13 PM

Quote from: Zebedee on April 18, 2010, 03:49 PM
At the same time, it's kind of strange that this god of his attempts to put a stop to something by explicitly sanctioning it. Especially given the fact that Allah isn't exactly shy of saying 'don't do such-and-such.'

Yes, that is obvious. If this was indeed Allah speaking, he would have said: "Don't do it!" Mo, having to tread lightly, had to cater to his followers wishes and say "please try this first, then it's ok".

What I am focusing on here is the way he is trying to re-interpret Islam into something almost acceptable.

Dunno how great his chances of success are though?
- Zebedee
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Re: 4:34 revisited
Reply #4 - April 18, 2010, 04:59 PM

Quote from: SE-man on April 18, 2010, 04:13 PM
Yes, that is obvious. If this was indeed Allah speaking, he would have said: "Don't do it!" Mo, having to tread lightly, had to cater to his followers wishes and say "please try this first, then it's ok".

What I am focusing on here is the way he is trying to re-interpret Islam into something almost acceptable.

Dunno how great his chances of success are though?

They say the same about slavery. I've head Shabir Ally say, essentialy, that it wasn't in Allah's power to completely end it at that point.

And probably most Muslims try to reinterpret Islam to make it more in line with their own moral sense, despite the fact that that completely contradicts the idea of 'submission.'

I think these 'reform-minded' types don't really have the texts or the orthodox understandings of them on their side. But still, it's theoretically possible that they, like Christians, could learn to tone down the strictness of their faith.

Then again, Islam is a completely different kettle of fish from Christianity. It is a religion of laws, rules and restrictions and damnation for anyone who doesn't follow them.

But, maybe they could learn something from reformed Judaism and the like. They could develop a kind of Islam that's not so literal in its understanding and application.
- cosmicdancer
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Re: 4:34 revisited
Reply #5 - April 18, 2010, 07:42 PM

Sorry, can't be bothered watching Hamza Yusuf waffle on - never much liked listening to him even when I was a Muslim.
- SE-man
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Re: 4:34 revisited
Reply #6 - April 18, 2010, 08:00 PM

Hassan, so what you are saying is that he is not genuine in his interpretation efforts?

You usually say that it is fine if people try to re-interpret Islam into something they can live with, even if it is not an interpretation that is coherent with reality. As long as they move away from the violent parts. I myself really would like to see a real development in that direction. But Hamza Yusuf is not it then?

/Stefan
- cosmicdancer
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Re: 4:34 revisited
Reply #7 - April 18, 2010, 08:03 PM

I am always torn between two emotions when I see ppl try to wriggle out of things like 4.34.

One the one hand of course I'm happy to see Muslims move away from violent interpretations.

On the other hand I hate bullshit.
- kaiwai
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Re: 4:34 revisited
Reply #8 - April 19, 2010, 01:54 AM

Quote from: Hassan on April 18, 2010, 08:03 PM
I am always torn between two emotions when I see ppl try to wriggle out of things like 4.34.

One the one hand of course I'm happy to see Muslims move away from violent interpretations.

On the other hand I hate bullshit.

I've seen some of Hamza Yusuf's early videos and he sounds like an early convert with all the zeal and arrogance that comes with the territory, however, he has gradually calmed down over the years. Personally I can see the attraction as so far as being young, well spoken and fluent in English but I'd sooner hear Timothy Winter whose background is in Religious Studies - and it really comes through when he explains Islam lol, where he will go "la de da le da de da...but on the other hand there is this group who do la de da de da de da but in so and so year there was a conflict and this new group spawned off..." so what you get is a religious studies explanation to a theological question in many cases. In some ways that is good for the average Muslim given that it allows them realise there is this huge grey area rather than the black and white picture portrayed by certain groups.

"It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
- Omaar Khayaam
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Re: 4:34 revisited
Reply #9 - April 19, 2010, 10:59 AM

Quote from: Hassan on April 18, 2010, 07:42 PM
Sorry, can't be bothered watching Hamza Yusuf waffle on - never much liked listening to him even when I was a Muslim.

I actually genuinely feel sorry for Hamza. He is widely and well read and is trying to square the circle as best as he can. Trying to make the best of a hopeless situation. He is one of those people who are trying to keep the traditional sunni islam afloat by piling on his interpretations. He's well versed in Arabic, rhetoric and logic, which tends to throw his audience off guard. Whether he does that intentionally or not only he knows.

If he did apostate openly he would put himself and his family in great danger. The salafi's already had it in for him and this would give them an excuse to take him down and mock him in public.

If he apostated quietly and removed himself from the public eye, he would still face some problems. No doubt questions will be asked by his audience as to where he has gone.
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