Louis Theroux: America's Medicated Kids

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- Ferrero
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Louis Theroux: America's Medicated Kids
OP - April 19, 2010, 08:24 PM

Unfortunately, non UKers will not be able to watch this documentary online. Louis Theroux meets kids as young as 6 who have been diagnosed with Attention Deficity Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD), Asperger's and Bipolar. I've been studying this all day and I'm watching this in awe. Can 6-10 year olds actually be depressed?

Although ADHD and Asperger's are neurological developmental disorders, the extent to which kids are medicated is unnerving.

Thoughts?

http://bbc.co.uk/i/s56gx/
- Nour
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Re: Louis Theroux: America's Medicated Kids
Reply #1 - April 19, 2010, 08:36 PM

My mom has said that if my brother and I had been born later than we were my brother would definitely have been diagnosed with ADD and put on Ritalin.

As for me, well my dad is convinced I have Aspergers Syndrome, so is my brother who has worked with autistic kids. I have a lot of not-very-nice memories of the remedial kindergarten I was made to attend for two years back in the early 80s because my mom and teachers thought I hadn't developed enough 'social skills' for my age.

IMO if the had known 25 years ago what they know now I think my childhood would not have been filled with so much confusion and misunderstanding.

Still, I think in many cases people are too quick to pin labels on children when all they are doing is BEING CHILDREN!!!

FFS, let kids be kids!

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Re: Louis Theroux: America's Medicated Kids
Reply #2 - April 19, 2010, 08:42 PM

I always had my suspicions that things like 'ADHD' and 'ADD' were bullshite.

Some people are just badly behaved and don't give a shit. Absolutely nothing to do with some kind of biological pathology. I myself was like that in school.

You ask people what causes ADHD and they can't tell you. Why? Because it's not a real disease. It's a behavioural characteristic that can have numerous causes.

Just an excuse to pump people full of drugs and subsequently get loads of money for the pharmaceutical companies.
- Nour
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Re: Louis Theroux: America's Medicated Kids
Reply #3 - April 19, 2010, 08:46 PM

Jeez! If these quacks could see the state of most kids in the UK these days they'd be going to town doping them up!

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

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Re: Louis Theroux: America's Medicated Kids
Reply #4 - April 19, 2010, 08:55 PM

Quote from: Nour on April 19, 2010, 08:36 PM
My mom has said that if my brother and I had been born later than we were my brother would definitely have been diagnosed with ADD and put on Ritalin.

As for me, well my dad is convinced I have Aspergers Syndrome, so is my brother who has worked with autistic kids. I have a lot of not-very-nice memories of the remedial kindergarten I was made to attend for two years back in the early 80s because my mom and teachers thought I hadn't developed enough 'social skills' for my age.

IMO if the had known 25 years ago what they know now I think my childhood would not have been filled with so much confusion and misunderstanding.

Still, I think in many cases people are too quick to pin labels on children when all they are doing is BEING CHILDREN!!!

FFS, let kids be kids!

Yeah, exactly.

I got the same kind of treatment at school. All kinds of theories people had about me. Maybe I was retarded, maybe I was depressed, maybe I had learning difficulties...

None of which were true. I just wasn't interested in the slightest and so never payed attention.
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Re: Louis Theroux: America's Medicated Kids
Reply #5 - April 20, 2010, 01:38 AM

Quote from: Nour on April 19, 2010, 08:36 PM
My mom has said that if my brother and I had been born later than we were my brother would definitely have been diagnosed with ADD and put on Ritalin.

As for me, well my dad is convinced I have Aspergers Syndrome, so is my brother who has worked with autistic kids. I have a lot of not-very-nice memories of the remedial kindergarten I was made to attend for two years back in the early 80s because my mom and teachers thought I hadn't developed enough 'social skills' for my age.

IMO if the had known 25 years ago what they know now I think my childhood would not have been filled with so much confusion and misunderstanding.

Still, I think in many cases people are too quick to pin labels on children when all they are doing is BEING CHILDREN!!!

FFS, let kids be kids!

My parents suspect I have some autism and mild OCD (I'm a walking genetic defect freak show - which explains why I'm gay; gotta stop those genes from being passed along lol). Regarding "hadn't developed enough 'social skills' for my age" - maybe you just didn't want to be social with those people? I know at primary school I was surrounded by absolute idiots and the situation didn't get much better in college either - it only started to become tolerable once I moved into university; surrounded by people whose conversation skills were more than whether Bobby Smith projectile vomited 2 metres, or whether Sarah Jane got her self shitfaced and shagged the ugliest guy in the class.

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Re: Louis Theroux: America's Medicated Kids
Reply #6 - April 20, 2010, 11:11 PM

Quote from: Zebedee on April 19, 2010, 08:42 PM
I always had my suspicions that things like 'ADHD' and 'ADD' were bullshite.

Some people are just badly behaved and don't give a shit. Absolutely nothing to do with some kind of biological pathology. I myself was like that in school.

You ask people what causes ADHD and they can't tell you. Why? Because it's not a real disease. It's a behavioural characteristic that can have numerous causes.

Just an excuse to pump people full of drugs and subsequently get loads of money for the pharmaceutical companies.

I think it's a little premature to say that they are bullshit. Do you mean that you think they are non-existant in children? Because I sure as hell have witnessed adults with ADD and ADHD, including my boyfriend.

But I do believe that medication is, horrifically, used to 'treat' kids that certainly do not have ADD/ADHD/ODD/Bipolar disorder. Like in the documentary, it's quite easy from the outside looking in, to say that those kids are just brattish, and badly behaved.

As for the causes of ADD/ADHD, like many forms of depression, is thought to be genetic. But I do agree that this has not been confirmed - but then again, I don't think the genetic basis of depression and bipolar disorder in adults has been confirmed either.

As you can see, I am really torn on this issue. I don't agree with pumping kids with medication simply to make them behave better. I think it's irresponsible and, simply sickening. Like they mentioned in the documentary, it's an "easy way out" - which to me is no excuse. But I do very much believe that disorders such as ADD/ADHD and the lot exist....I remember reading a Science journal article about it a few months ago...I'll see if I can dish it up...
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Re: Louis Theroux: America's Medicated Kids
Reply #7 - April 20, 2010, 11:34 PM

^ +1. It's getting rather late for me to get references up etc but ADHD/ODD/Depression/Bipolar/Asperger's/Other developmental, neurological (or otherwise) disorders are not bullshit. The criteria for diagnosis is not pulled out of thin air. ADHD has a very strong genetic basis, ODD not as strong.

My qualm with the treatment side of things is the readiness and ease of prescribing pills, especially at such young ages. The symptoms of concern may subside but that doesn't mean to say other things aren't happening, esp. re biochemical balances in a developing brain.
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Re: Louis Theroux: America's Medicated Kids
Reply #8 - April 20, 2010, 11:50 PM

Quote from: spiral dive on April 20, 2010, 11:11 PM
I think it's a little premature to say that they are bullshit. Do you mean that you think they are non-existant in children? Because I sure as hell have witnessed adults with ADD and ADHD, including my boyfriend.

But I do believe that medication is, horrifically, used to 'treat' kids that certainly do not have ADD/ADHD/ODD/Bipolar disorder. Like in the documentary, it's quite easy from the outside looking in, to say that those kids are just brattish, and badly behaved.

As for the causes of ADD/ADHD, like many forms of depression, is thought to be genetic. But I do agree that this has not been confirmed - but then again, I don't think the genetic basis of depression and bipolar disorder in adults has been confirmed either.

As you can see, I am really torn on this issue. I don't agree with pumping kids with medication simply to make them behave better. I think it's irresponsible and, simply sickening. Like they mentioned in the documentary, it's an "easy way out" - which to me is no excuse. But I do very much believe that disorders such as ADD/ADHD and the lot exist....I remember reading a Science journal article about it a few months ago...I'll see if I can dish it up...

Yes, they exist, but more as behavioural conditions rather than something produced by specific genetic defects.

Some people may manifest 'ADHD' symptoms due to a bad uprbringing leading to bad behaviour. Others may have a physiological condition that makes their behaviour erratic, e.g., some kind of hormonal deficiency.

But I'm not an expert and I don't claim to be. But I do have my suspicions that this ADHD/ADD thing is trying to paint people who manifest similar symptoms with the same broad brush.

The fact that there is no identifiable cause leads me to believe that it is a symptom, rather than a specific disease. As well as the fact that poor behaviour and academic performance and the like could have innumerable different causes.
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Re: Louis Theroux: America's Medicated Kids
Reply #9 - April 20, 2010, 11:57 PM

Quote from: Ferrero on April 20, 2010, 11:34 PM
^ +1. It's getting rather late for me to get references up etc but ADHD/ODD/Depression/Bipolar/Asperger's/Other developmental, neurological (or otherwise) disorders are not bullshit. The criteria for diagnosis is not pulled out of thin air. ADHD has a very strong genetic basis, ODD not as strong.

My qualm with the treatment side of things is the readiness and ease of prescribing pills, especially at such young ages. The symptoms of concern may subside but that doesn't mean to say other things aren't happening, esp. re biochemical balances in a developing brain.

I'm not saying that I think all of those things are b.s. I have a cousin with Asperger's and it's very noticeable in that person's behaviour. And I've never heard of this strong genetic basis for ADHD. As far as I know, its etiology is unknown. But, like I say, I'm no expert.

And I couldn't agree more with you on the turning of mere children into pill-poppers. That's seriously messed up.
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Re: Louis Theroux: America's Medicated Kids
Reply #10 - April 21, 2010, 09:36 AM

Twin studies is one of the best ways to test for the presence of a biological link. Wender et al (2001)- monozygotic twins (sharing same egg) have a concordance rate of 58-83% v. dizygotic twins of both having ADHD being 31-47%. MZ share more genetic material than DZ. This finding has also been amplified with the risk of a sibling of a child ADHD sufferer being 3 times higher than if neither sibling had ADHD. If ADHD continues into adulthood (1/2 of child sufferers--> adult sufferers), the risk of the sibling also having ADHD is increased 17 fold (Faraone et al., 2000).

Re neurotransmitter dsyregulation hypothesis, dopamine has been heavily implicated. It subserves executive functioning (e.g. planning, problem solving, reasoning). In addition to this, abnormal levels of noradrenaline in the prefrontal cortex (where a big bulk of executive functioning takes place) + the basal ganglia (important for learning and has strong cortical connections to the cortex and thalamus) have been recorded in children with ADHD (Barkley, 2003). The same author also found structural and functional abnormalities associated with executive function with the prefrontal cortex and basal ganglia being less symmetrical in the right hemisphere of the brain in ADHD children.

I don't know how indepth in want me to present the biological link with ADHD but re dopamine dysregulation, 3 systems in the brain have been highlighted as causing the symptoms of ADHD, due to abnormally low dopamine levels:
(1) Mesocortical system - inattention, poor behaviour regulation.
(2) Mesolimbic system- leading to short term rewards being more influencial; ADHD sufferers are less able to behave in ways to pospone enjoyment and what it instantly.
(3) Nigostriatal system- clumsiness and poor non-declarative expressions.
Another neurotransmitter, norepinephine has also found to be lower in the frontal cortex of affected children and this is thought to amplify response to stimuli and reduce response to unattended stimuli (symptoms of ADHD: attention deficit + impulsivity). Additionally, sufferers have also been found to have slower psycholophysiological response to novel stimuli but this has also been noted in learning difficulties and conduct disorders (Taylor, 1994).

Although only a specific number of genes have been identified as playing a part in ADHD, we mustn't overlook the vast wealth of evidence for regulatory systems having deficits which give rise to the symptoms of ADHD. The human body is so complex with a vast array of connections and links that the smallest of imbalances can be disasterous.
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