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Theme Changer

 Topic: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris

 (Read 5240 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     OP - June 27, 2010, 10:23 PM

    A great book to read. Its only 90 pages. The author is very clear, concise and right to the point.

    For those of you who read it, what do you think of it?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0cBIQk13lI
  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #1 - June 27, 2010, 10:58 PM

    I honestly dont think Christianity is dangerous.  It's not logical or appeals to the rational mind but it's not dangerous.  It has it's share of loonies but not too many dangerous people come out of there.  Just today at my work this guy who gets off of shift told me he's going to church now and then he asked my if I beleive in god and I said "nope". Then he sighed and asked me (in a joking manner), "do you know where you're going"?  We both laughed.  The thing I liked is that he was joking and he didnt give a damn about my background and he didnt say, "do you believe in Jesus, cause if you dont you're going to hell" or whatever that bullshit is.  Christianity has made huge strides in history and it's just a personal religion.

    "A good man is so hard to find but a hard man is so good to find"
  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #2 - June 27, 2010, 11:08 PM

    Christianity right now is not violent comparable to Islam. That I will give you. However it is violent in its own nature. Christianity now uses its own geopolitical and sociopolitical reasoning to define the world in its own meaning. Which itself is quite dangerous.

    For Example,  Catholic Missionaries in Africa are so cooked up trying to stop African Christians from using condoms that they rather see AIDs in Africa spread than people having pleasurable sexual behaviors (which btw is against Catholic Church, as it believes any sex without the intentions of conceiving a child is immoral)

    My friend, not all dangerous acts require violence.
  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #3 - June 27, 2010, 11:24 PM

    I honestly dont think Christianity is dangerous.  It's not logical or appeals to the rational mind but it's not dangerous.  It has it's share of loonies but not too many dangerous people come out of there.  Just today at my work this guy who gets off of shift told me he's going to church now and then he asked my if I beleive in god and I said "nope". Then he sighed and asked me (in a joking manner), "do you know where you're going"?  We both laughed.  The thing I liked is that he was joking and he didnt give a damn about my background and he didnt say, "do you believe in Jesus, cause if you dont you're going to hell" or whatever that bullshit is.  Christianity has made huge strides in history and it's just a personal religion.

    Tell that to the gay Americans who cannot marry their loved ones because of the bigotry of American Christians; Tell that to the public school students in Kansas who can't learn about evolution; Tell that to the millions of patients with Leukemia, cancer, Parkinson's disease, spinal cord injuries, Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, and multiple sclerosis who are at a disadvantage because of the threat of banning stem-cell research; Tell that to the millions of American kids who are deprived of sex-education classes; Tell that to those campaigning against state-sanctioned school prayers.

    This is only America I'm talking about. If I could expand the topic to other countries, I will have to write at least 10,000 words. Just the other day we read about a story about a US-funded African Christian preacher who was advocating the killing of Homosexuals.


    I hope Q-Man or any of our American members contribute to this thread.

  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #4 - June 27, 2010, 11:25 PM

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_right
  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #5 - June 27, 2010, 11:49 PM

    Tell that to the gay Americans who cannot marry their loved ones because of the bigotry of American Christians; Tell that to the public school students in Kansas who can't learn about evolution; Tell that to the millions of patients with Leukemia, cancer, Parkinson's disease, spinal cord injuries, Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, and multiple sclerosis who are at a disadvantage because of the threat of banning stem-cell research; Tell that to the millions of American kids who are deprived of sex-education classes; Tell that to those campaigning against state-sanctioned school prayers.

    This is only America I'm talking about. If I could expand the topic to other countries, I will have to write at least 10,000 words. Just the other day we read about a story about a US-funded African Christian preacher who was advocating the killing of Homosexuals.


    I hope Q-Man or any of our American members contribute to this thread.




    great Post IA!

    These are all the major areas that Sam Harris hit in his book and intelligently explained to us the dangers of Christianity in US
  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #6 - June 28, 2010, 12:42 AM

    For Example,  Catholic Missionaries in Africa are so cooked up trying to stop African Christians from using condoms that they rather see AIDs in Africa spread than people having pleasurable sexual behaviors (which btw is against Catholic Church, as it believes any sex without the intentions of conceiving a child is immoral)


    Wow, I did not know that!  That's awful.


    My friend, not all dangerous acts require violence.


    Definitely agreed.  These brainwashing cults are horrible, the damage they do to society takes generations to understand and by that time damage is already done.  What was that one with 800 people who killed themselves(including poisoning their own children) because they were led to believe they would go to heaven during the next comet blast or something?  Forgot the cult's name.  But they all start with some bullshit with "GOD", pisses me off.

    "A good man is so hard to find but a hard man is so good to find"
  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #7 - June 28, 2010, 12:55 AM

    Wow, I did not know that!  That's awful.

    It is awful. It's a shame that in this day an age gays cannot get married in America the country that is supposed to be the cradle of tolerance and freedom.
  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #8 - June 28, 2010, 01:04 AM

    I agree the books strength is its conciseness. cuts through the bullshit brilliantly, although its christianity that is on the recieving end i think the book could be equally applied to the mental gymnastics that most religions have to perform in order for them to continue to believe in what is patent nonsense.
    I dont think its important which religion people are giving up on ,its just important they are and that atheism or similar crtical thinking is shaping future concepts on what it means to be human with less and less recourse to mumbo jumbo.

    According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #9 - June 28, 2010, 01:09 AM

    Iraqi, sweetie.
    I said Christianity as a religion.  That doesnt mean there wont always be those idiots who deny their loved one's medicine or proper healthcare because they believe "god" will heal all or something.  That doesn't mean there will be people who deny homosexuals to marry even though not only christians are against homosexuals.  Hindu fanatics think they can cure homosexuality with yoga 015.  Overall Christianity is okey, accepting, tolerant. Christians invented the whole separation of church and state. That's why I say it's more of a personal religion (not a logical one).  

    "A good man is so hard to find but a hard man is so good to find"
  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #10 - June 28, 2010, 01:15 AM

    It is awful. It's a shame that in this day an age gays cannot get married in America the country that is supposed to be the cradle of tolerance and freedom.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmEux9PlOj4

    "A good man is so hard to find but a hard man is so good to find"
  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #11 - June 28, 2010, 01:18 AM

     Overall Christianity is okey, accepting, tolerant. Christians invented the whole separation of church and state. That's why I say it's more of a personal religion (not a logical one).  



    Incorrect. It was American Founding Fathers who were Deists that created concept of Separation of Church and State. This comes from Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptist explaining why the founding fathers chose to provide freedom of religion in the first Amendment.

    Though many Conservatives Christians like to assume that US was found upon Christian values and our Founding Fathers were devout Christians, they are incorrect in that Matter.

    There is not one single place in the United Constitution that ever mentions the word "God"

  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #12 - June 28, 2010, 01:26 AM

    There are people who would argue whether the founding fathers were either deists or christians, either way they made it possible to separate church and state.

    "A good man is so hard to find but a hard man is so good to find"
  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #13 - June 28, 2010, 01:34 AM



    If gay marriage is given legal status then churches will be forced to marry gay couples or else face losing their tax exempt status?

    That guy is fuckin brain-dead.

    And furthermore taxing churches is NOT a violation of the separation of church and state as this moron seems to believe.

    fuck you
  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #14 - June 28, 2010, 01:36 AM

    There are people who would argue whether the founding fathers were either deists or christians, either way they made it possible to separate church and state.


    Yes, these people are called dumbasses.

    fuck you
  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #15 - June 28, 2010, 01:59 AM

    Iraqi, sweetie.

    I'll be frank with you here. I have no problem with you (or anyone for that matter) calling me sweetie or honey when we're joking around and talking about light-hearted topics. As a matter of fact, I like you as a member. But I don't like it when you use the word "sweetie" in serious discussions. I feel it's very condescending and patronizing. So please cut it out. Kthnx  Smiley


     That doesnt mean there wont always be those idiots who deny their loved one's medicine or proper healthcare because they believe "god" will heal all or something.  That doesn't mean there will be people who deny homosexuals to marry even though not only christians are against homosexuals.

    It's not just "idiots". The Christian Right is a very influential political force in US politics. And their agenda is deeply rooted in Christian ideology. It's not just exceptions. The religious movements, particularly the Evangelical, in America are the most illiberal, homophobic, socially conservative, and anti-science movements in the American political scene. It's baffling that you live in America yet you don't see it.


    I said Christianity as a religion.

    Overall Christianity is okey, accepting, tolerant.

    That's just the opposite of reality. Christianity as a religion is none of these things. It's liberal and moderate Christians I have no problem with.


    Christians invented the whol e separation of church and state.

    IIRC, it was the enlightenment thinkers, atheists, deists, and  who called for the separation. Particularly French secularists. Among the American Founding Fathers, Thomas Paine was a an atheist, Jefferson was a deist or a best  a lapsed Christian, and Washington refused to take communion and rarely went to Church.


    That's why I say it's more of a personal religion (not a logical one).

    Again, simply not true in the US. It largely is true in the UK where religion isn't a political force. But in the US religion has a great influence of policy-making and politics in general. [See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_right]



    Way to go on avoiding the issue.  Afro

    At any rate, the video is a huge fail.
    First of all, the guy in the video says that civil partnership are OK but same-sex marriage is not. I wish that were the case in America. Only 6 States perform same-sex marriages (CT, DC, IA, MA, NH, VT,) and only 9 perform civil partnerships/unions (CA, CO, HI, ME, NJ, NV, OR, WA, WI). That leaves 35 states where neither is performed. Meaning gay people residing in 35 fuckin states cannot get any legal recognition of their same-sex relationships or benefits that entails. For example, they can't get tax cuts and they can't get IR-1 immigrant visa for their same-sex partners like heterosexuals. IWO, they are being discriminated against and it's largely because of religious and Evangelical Christians.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States#State_law [see map]

    Now I personally think gays should be allowed to get married but I also think having the ability to enter same-sex union/partnerships is good enough as long as they get all the benefits heterosexual couples are entitled to. In the relatively atheist UK that is the case but in the relatively religious US it isn't. This fact backs my point

    Also, the US is still one of very few Western countries where gays can't serve openly in the military and one of the few Western countries where there are no ant-discrimination laws to protect LGBT people. Coincidentally (not !), it is the most religious Western country with the least percentage of atheists.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_rights_around_the_world#North_America
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_rights_in_the_United_States#Anti-discrimination_laws [see map]


    Oh and one other lie in the video. The guys says liberals who want to introduce same-sex marriage want to "force Churches to perform these ceremonies". That is a blatant lie. Nobody wants to make Churches do anything. All they want is to be able to go to city hall, pay the fee, and get a damn marriage certificate and then be eligible to the benefits.
  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #16 - June 28, 2010, 02:13 AM



    Yes, these people are called dumbasses.


    Many past presidents/congressmen (dumbasses) have stated that laws & customs are derived from Judeo/Christian values...that still linger.  The pledge of alliance is "one nation under GOD", on Christmas you cannot sell Liquor.  Liberals ofcourse say this wasnt based on a Christian nation while Conservatives say it was.  
    http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/politics/pg0040.html.


    "A good man is so hard to find but a hard man is so good to find"
  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #17 - June 28, 2010, 02:24 AM

    Many past presidents/congressmen (dumbasses) have stated that laws & customs are derived from Judeo/Christian values...that still linger.

    First of all, what do you mean Judeo-Christian values? stoning adulterers and and homosexuals and forcing men to marry their brothers' widows?

    The US laws are based on English common law. Ask any lawyer/law student. Hell ask anyone with basic knowledge of the laws of the US


     The pledge of alliance is "one nation under GOD",

     015
    The words under God was added by president Truman in 1954.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_nation_under_God#Addition_of_the_words_.22under_God.22


    on Christmas you cannot sell Liquor.  Liberals ofcourse say this wasnt based on a Christian nation while Conservatives say it was.  
    http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/politics/pg0040.html.

    The founding fathers never intended the US to be a Christian nation. Read article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_with_Algeria_%281795%29#Article_11

    "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"
  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #18 - June 28, 2010, 02:37 AM


    Many past presidents/congressmen (dumbasses) have stated that laws & customs are derived from Judeo/Christian values...that still linger.  


    Yes, they are dumbasses. Just because they hold political office doesn't mean they're not talking total bullshit, in fact, if anything it guarantees it.

    Quote
    The pledge of alliance is "one nation under GOD",


    What IA said

    Quote
    on Christmas you cannot sell Liquor.

     

    finmad That varies from state-to-state. You mean you're here telling us about the US's political foundations when you don't even comprehend our basic federal structure of government? Gawd.  banghead

    Quote
    Liberals ofcourse say this wasnt based on a Christian nation while Conservatives say it was.  
    http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/politics/pg0040.html.


    You buy into that liberal-conservative political fault line in the US? Well, that certainly explains a lot.

    fuck you
  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #19 - June 28, 2010, 04:04 AM

    Liquor sells all day every day in Mississippi.  It is awesome except for everything else in the state.

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #20 - June 30, 2010, 02:42 AM

    Maybe I'll change my opinion.....i dunno.

    O and Iraqi i won't be calling  you "sweetie" in any manner.

    "A good man is so hard to find but a hard man is so good to find"
  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #21 - June 30, 2010, 02:59 AM

    On a side note, Nepal announced in 2008 that it was trying to introduce a gay marriage bill. Oh, and their opposition is not some religious group but Maoists (I think they're not religious).
  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #22 - June 30, 2010, 03:01 AM

    Aren't maoists nothing but another form of communists?
    They cause soooo much trouble in India!

    "A good man is so hard to find but a hard man is so good to find"
  • Re: "A letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris
     Reply #23 - June 30, 2010, 07:35 AM

    Maybe I'll change my opinion.....i dunno.

    O and Iraqi i won't be calling  you "sweetie" in any manner.


     Cry
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