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 Topic: So do you support this, HighOctane? ;)

 (Read 4030 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • So do you support this, HighOctane? ;)
     OP - November 03, 2010, 01:30 AM

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11680382

    Victim's Commissioner: End jury trials for minor crimes
    By Dominic Casciani
    BBC News home affairs correspondent

    The right to trial by jury for many lesser offences should be ended in England and Wales, the Commissioner for Victims of Crime has proposed.

    Louise Casey said almost 70,000 crown court cases each year could be heard in magistrates' courts, saving at least £30m in prosecution costs.

    Ms Casey said the move would benefit victims of serious crime who suffer due to delays in "clogged up" crown courts.

    It comes as the Ministry of Justice cuts the budget for courts and prisons.

    Ms Casey said a jury trial should not be viewed as right for crimes known as "either way" offences, which can be heard in magistrates or sent to trial in crown court.

    "We should not view the right to a jury trial as being so sacrosanct that its exercise should be at the cost of victims of serious crimes," Ms Casey said.

    "It is known that waiting for a criminal trial often means that victims put their lives on hold; bereaved families of murder victims cannot grieve until the trial is over," she said.

    "Defendants should not have the right to choose to be tried by a jury over something such as the theft of a bicycle or stealing from a parking meter."

    Sentencing increases?

    Eight out of 10 of these cases are dealt with by magistrates. But the lower court sends 60,000 of them to crown court every year with a further 9,000 defendants also asking for jury trial.

    Ms Casey, who took up her role in March, said the figures showed that very often this was a massive waste of time and money and trials of serious crimes were being "stacked up waiting for court time".

    In 50,000 of the cases sent to crown courts, defendants eventually plead guilty, wasting £15m of the Crown Prosecution Services money, she said.

    She added that if just half of either-way cases remained in the lower courts, some £30m would be saved straight away.

    Cases that should remain firmly in magistrates' courts include petty theft, she said, highlighting one newspaper report of the pilfering of tea and biscuits.

    If defendants are holding out to see if witnesses turn up, that is not justice, she added.

    "It is an abuse of the system, and puts an intolerable pressure on victims and witnesses that could be called a form of witness intimidation.

    "We need to stop the abuse of the process which allows defendants and their solicitors to string out a case at the expense of victims and the public."

    She said she had full confidence in magistrates to properly dispense justice.

    Ms Casey also backed calls for magistrates' sentencing powers to be doubled from six months to one year per offence, so they can avoid referring more borderline cases to the crown court.

    In a separate report, the Chief Inspector of Constabulary estimated that better management of prosecution casework could save £40m a year alone.

    It said it found an example of a shoplifter who was caught by police and sentenced in court two hours later. But it also said that it can take 1,000 steps to deal with a simple domestic burglary.

    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: So do you support this, HighOctane? ;)
     Reply #1 - November 03, 2010, 07:10 AM

    Thanks, though this is in the wrong section bucko.

    Yes. Looks like there is statistically good evidence and I've recently experienced this clogged up process with a person who is waiting a long while at a crown court cases, eating up tax payers money for what is a simple case of his harassing a woman (the case is in it's 4th month I think).

    Q-Man, how about a ringside seat one-on-one? *throws ice-hockey gloves off*

    Come on German hater, you say I'm too nice.
  • Re: So do you support this, HighOctane? ;)
     Reply #2 - November 03, 2010, 12:52 PM

    Thanks, though this is in the wrong section bucko.


    Indeed. Mods, request to move to "News From UK" Thanks.

    Quote
    Yes. Looks like there is statistically good evidence and I've recently experienced this clogged up process with a person who is waiting a long while at a crown court cases, eating up tax payers money for what is a simple case of his harassing a woman (the case is in it's 4th month I think).


    So you've put a price tag on due process then? If it costs too much money or takes too much time, let's just ditch the rights of the accused. If you were living in the US would you argue for throwing out the 4th, 5th and 6th Amendments because their application "clogs up the courts" or "eats up taxpayer money"? Ever consider the fact that right to trial by jury was established in the common law for ALL crimes for good reason?

    Let's see of you have the same opinion if you're ever charged with a "minor" crime you didn't commit.

    I got a better way to unclog the courts system in the UK and US-- start repealing bullshit laws, of which there are many. The reason your court system is clogged, like ours, is stupid drug laws and a society that's decided to legislate fucking everything.

    Quote
    Q-Man, how about a ringside seat one-on-one? *throws ice-hockey gloves off*


    I'm not a fan of those. I don't care to read them even. I like it better when multiple people can share their opinions/ideas.

    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: So do you support this, HighOctane? ;)
     Reply #3 - November 03, 2010, 01:57 PM

    Legalise marijuana if they want to save courts time, they could also earn extra money for the treasury by taxing it.  Another way of simultaneously cutting crime and raising money would be to increase the taxes on alcohol.  I've no doubt alcohol is responsible for alot more crime than pot.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: So do you support this, HighOctane? ;)
     Reply #4 - November 03, 2010, 02:11 PM

    Come on Q. Why are you obsessed with HO? It's not like he's the only guy in the world who holds authoritarian illiberal views. Seriously just drop it.  Smiley
  • Re: So do you support this, HighOctane? ;)
     Reply #5 - November 03, 2010, 02:16 PM

    Come on Q. Why are you obsessed with HO?


    Haven't you seen him shirtless? He's hot!

    Quote
    It's not like he's the only guy in the world who holds authoritarian illiberal views. Seriously just drop it.  Smiley


    No, but he's in the minority on this forum with those views, and seeing as how this is a news story from the UK, I figured I'd solicit his opinions on it. Who knows? He mighta surprised me.  Wink

    I could ask DH, but he's a total douche consumed by hatred and paranoia. If I want to solicit the opinions of an authoritarian on CEMB Forum, might as well ask HO cause he's actually a decent person (aside from his political beliefs) as far as I can tell.

    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: So do you support this, HighOctane? ;)
     Reply #6 - November 03, 2010, 02:21 PM

    Come on Q. Why are you obsessed with HO? It's not like he's the only guy in the world who holds authoritarian illiberal views. Seriously just drop it.  Smiley


    to be fair, HO posts stuff on here that is against a lot of what Q stands for (and Q's job in real life is dealing with stuff like this - i think), and that's probably why Q has a hard-on for him.

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: So do you support this, HighOctane? ;)
     Reply #7 - November 03, 2010, 03:06 PM

    Haven't you seen him shirtless? He's hot!


    Good ole Reverend here has a thing for young boys...who would've thought?

    to be fair, HO posts stuff on here that is against a lot of what Q stands for (and Q's job in real life is dealing with stuff like this - i think), and that's probably why Q has a hard-on for him.


    I think you have a hard on for Q.  Just admit it.


    "A good man is so hard to find but a hard man is so good to find"
  • Re: So do you support this, HighOctane? ;)
     Reply #8 - November 03, 2010, 04:05 PM

    I think you have a hard on for Q.  Just admit it.

    You've seen the video he did for Q too?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: So do you support this, HighOctane? ;)
     Reply #9 - November 03, 2010, 09:36 PM

    So you've put a price tag on due process then?


    No. Make it efficient just as for shoplifting. Do you have trouble reading? Let me help you:

    Quote
    It said it found an example of a shoplifter who was caught by police and sentenced in court two hours later. But it also said that it could take 1,000 steps to deal with a simple domestic burglary.


    Did that example not get processed in your rusty set of synapses?

    I know a man who harassed a woman in public 4 months ago. He's visited court three times and now waiting until he is trialled at the crown court. Money, money, money & time, time, time for something that is obvious. If he shop lifted the process is quicker. There is CCTV evidence of what he did. But, oh no, CCTV is evil in your books isn't it Q-Man, for personal privacy reasons? You confused relativist.

    I'm not a fan of those. I don't care to read them even. I like it better when multiple people can share their opinions/ideas.


    You're so insecure. Many people here want to see me knock out your ways of thinking. Come on you serial-killer-supporting (RIP-ing Moat), be a man and put up a fight, you wimp.

    No, but he's in the minority on this forum with those views,


    Cheesy You really are insecure! Don't flatter yourself, there are plenty of niqab banning, pro-Israeli, anti-Sharia, anti-NY Mosque, anti-minaret, anti-ISOC people here.

    ask HO cause he's actually a decent person


    Cheesy That's the nicest thing to ever come out of your yap. You're like a badly behaved pet dog, treat it sternly and it behaves.
  • Re: So do you support this, HighOctane? ;)
     Reply #10 - November 03, 2010, 09:46 PM

     Roll Eyes

    Bye

    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: So do you support this, HighOctane? ;)
     Reply #11 - November 03, 2010, 09:53 PM


    I know a man who harassed a woman in public 4 months ago. He's visited court three times and now waiting until he is trialled at the crown court. Money, money, money & time, time, time for something that is obvious. If he shop lifted the process is quicker. There is CCTV evidence of what he did. But, oh no, CCTV is evil in your books isn't it Q-Man, for personal privacy reasons? You confused relativist.




    Yes, but in every case the defendent needs to know what are the charges and be able to contest them in front of the person/persons decieding the case.  The price tag is one of the least salient issues when decieding the guilt or innocence of a person, what is most important is to be able to have both sides present their case if theyso wish.

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: So do you support this, HighOctane? ;)
     Reply #12 - November 03, 2010, 10:16 PM

    Yes deusvult, I agree, but honestly you've got to see the process and how slow it is. It isn't about the laws. The man in question has had his side of the storey told several times. I love the laws of this country. I'm coming from a logistical point of view in doing things effectively.

    Do you think 3+ court hearings needed for a sexual harassment that is on CCTV? If it not needed for shoplifting, I don't understand why it takes so long. Actually I do, it is because of a fine process that overtime gets burdened with redtape and process. Just like a multinational company and it's change control system when over time different people are in charge. It takes leadership to make changes on standard processes that become the norm over time, I think.

    Bye


    The door for an apology is always open, if ever he is man enough to admit it and move on like adults. Let him know that folks, thanks.  Afro I'm a nice guy really, but I do not like getting walked over (in all those previous posts of his).
  • Re: So do you support this, HighOctane? ;)
     Reply #13 - November 03, 2010, 10:20 PM

    No. Make it efficient just as for shoplifting. Do you have trouble reading? Let me help you:

    Did that example not get processed in your rusty set of synapses?

    I know a man who harassed a woman in public 4 months ago. He's visited court three times and now waiting until he is trialled at the crown court. Money, money, money & time, time, time for something that is obvious. If he shop lifted the process is quicker. There is CCTV evidence of what he did. But, oh no, CCTV is evil in your books isn't it Q-Man, for personal privacy reasons? You confused relativist.

    You're so insecure. Many people here want to see me knock out your ways of thinking. Come on you serial-killer-supporting (RIP-ing Moat), be a man and put up a fight, you wimp.

    Cheesy You really are insecure! Don't flatter yourself, there are plenty of niqab banning, pro-Israeli, anti-Sharia, anti-NY Mosque, anti-minaret, anti-ISOC people here.

    Cheesy That's the nicest thing to ever come out of your yap. You're like a badly behaved pet dog, treat it sternly and it behaves.


    uh really? i dunno about supporting a state created cuz god supposedly put the jews there, whether it's 'democratic' or not. i'm not going to cry for the palestinians but this whole zion bullshit doesn't sit well with me...

    n.b: to make it clear i don't support israel's creation. but i do support a two-state solution as that's the only way to deal with it 60 years into this shitfest short of total war
  • Re: So do you support this, HighOctane? ;)
     Reply #14 - November 03, 2010, 10:45 PM

    Quote
    Yes deusvult, I agree, but honestly you've got to see the process and how slow it is. It isn't about the laws. The man in question has had his side of the storey told several times. I love the laws of this country. I'm coming from a logistical point of view in doing things effectively.

    Do you think 3+ court hearings needed for a sexual harassment that is on CCTV? If it not needed for shoplifting, I don't understand why it takes so long. Actually I do, it is because of a fine process that overtime gets burdened with redtape and process. Just like a multinational company and it's change control system when over time different people are in charge. It takes leadership to make changes on standard processes that become the norm over time, I think.


    Not sure how it is in the UK, but in the US the process seems slow, but compared to any other legal system it is incredibly fast, while still holding true to the basic tenets.  I can't comment about the other case because I don't know the specifics, but I usually find from my various classes in law that most things are there for a reason.  

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: So do you support this, HighOctane? ;)
     Reply #15 - November 03, 2010, 11:19 PM

    (Thinks to self: "I like this HO better")
  • Re: So do you support this, HighOctane? ;)
     Reply #16 - November 03, 2010, 11:22 PM

     Cheesy  Cheesy

    he should start swearing in his poems  Cheesy

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: So do you support this, HighOctane? ;)
     Reply #17 - November 04, 2010, 02:42 AM

    HO, I am confused by your stance towards qman. If you do indeed want an apology and stand the moral high ground then why are you insulting him by calling him a dog? Who can really claim an apology and claim to have the high ground when you both have insulted each other?
    Perhaps it is the rest of the forum that deserves an apology for having to read this squabble  Wink

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
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