Conversion from Islam

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- Omaar Khayaam
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Re: Conversion from Islam
Reply #30 - November 15, 2009, 08:57 PM

Quote from: Hassan on November 15, 2009, 08:56 PM
Listened to the "Intro" and "Nietzsche His Life, Times, Works, and Themes" so far - loving every word!

Just think what else he could have written had he a few more years to live.
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Re: Conversion from Islam
Reply #31 - November 15, 2009, 08:59 PM

Yes - I was surprised to hear his writing career was so short - 16 years in total - then he lost his mind - very sad.
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Re: Conversion from Islam
Reply #32 - November 15, 2009, 09:42 PM

Hassan,
I would not have thought that philosophy like this would appeal to you :

Quote
The elimination of the worn out shell of the old order, however, is only the first step in the transition to the superman. With the collapse of the old order, humanity in Nietzsche‟s view will be engulfed in chaos and destruction. It will be a period of unparalleled ferocity with wars the like of which the world has never seen.18 While many might find this prospect horrifying, Nietzsche is less concerned about the coming carnage and looks to the future with a new cheerfulness that grows out of his sense of liberation.19 His disgust with late nineteenth century Europe, with the idea of human dignity and the value of labor?the most abysmal forms of slave morality?is profound, and he longs for its destruction in the belief that the resulting chaos and war will promote a new manliness, and help humanity to recover from the weakening, softening, and decadence that Christianity brought about. He is convinced that only in the cauldron of war can humanity be hardened and overcome pity, which Zarathustra refers to as his final sin. This hardening is not merely a mental toughening, but also and primarily the training and disciplining of the body, of the self and its passions. In particular it includes the elimination of sympathy for the suffering of others. Lest one imagine that Nietzsche intends this in a merely metaphorical sense, he specifically points to the brutal heroes of the Norse sagas, whom he praises for their unfeeling hard-heartedness, as models for
19
what he has in mind.20 Contemporary human beings in his view are a herd of consumers; he wants humans who are warriors and beasts of prey. Such men in his view will learn discipline in the midst of war and destruction or they will not survive.21 Out of these ferocious barbarians will grow a new aristocracy, repeating a process Nietzsche believes has occurred many times before. How this process will unfold and modify the barbarism of the ?blond beasts‟ is not something that Nietzsche (in contrast to Plato)considers in any great detail.

http://users.polisci.wisc.edu/polphil/GillespieNietzscheWarriors.pdf

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Re: Conversion from Islam
Reply #33 - November 15, 2009, 09:47 PM

That sounds like Hass.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
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Re: Conversion from Islam
Reply #34 - November 16, 2009, 07:51 AM

Quote from: Paloma on November 15, 2009, 09:42 PM
Hassan,
I would not have thought that philosophy like this would appeal to you :

http://users.polisci.wisc.edu/polphil/GillespieNietzscheWarriors.pdf

Well I shall reserve my complete judgment about him until I have explored him more thoroughly, but the lectures have said many times that Nietzsche is grossly misunderstood and misused and he cited the idea of the superman as being a case in point.

Besides - unlike religion where one has to defend the shitty bits - Nietzsche is not a Prophet of God nor a religion - so I can take what I want and reject what I want.
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Re: Conversion from Islam
Reply #35 - November 16, 2009, 07:59 AM

Quote from: Hassan on November 16, 2009, 07:51 AM
Well I shall reserve my complete judgment about him until I have explored him more thoroughly, but the lectures have said many times that Nietzsche is grossly misunderstood and misused and he cited the idea of the superman as being a case in point.

Besides - unlike religion where one has to defend the shitty bits - Nietzsche is not a Prophet of God nor a religion - so I can take what I want and reject what I want.

+1
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Re: Conversion from Islam
Reply #36 - November 16, 2009, 08:20 AM

Quote from: Hassan on November 16, 2009, 07:51 AM
Well I shall reserve my complete judgment about him until I have explored him more thoroughly, but the lectures have said many times that Nietzsche is grossly misunderstood and misused and he cited the idea of the superman as being a case in point.

Besides - unlike religion where one has to defend the shitty bits - Nietzsche is not a Prophet of God nor a religion - so I can take what I want and reject what I want.

Sounds a bit like what Buddha said to his followers (probably explains my leaning towards the mystical eastern religions like Hinduism, Buddhism etc).

"It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
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Re: Conversion from Islam
Reply #37 - November 16, 2009, 11:15 AM

Quote from: Hassan on November 16, 2009, 07:51 AM
Well I shall reserve my complete judgment about him until I have explored him more thoroughly, but the lectures have said many times that Nietzsche is grossly misunderstood and misused and he cited the idea of the superman as being a case in point.

Besides - unlike religion where one has to defend the shitty bits - Nietzsche is not a Prophet of God nor a religion - so I can take what I want and reject what I want.

Well, that is fine - not that I think there is anything ambiguous in what I quoted.

Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
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Re: Conversion from Islam
Reply #38 - November 16, 2009, 05:28 PM

Quote from: Paloma on November 16, 2009, 11:15 AM
Well, that is fine - not that I think there is anything ambiguous in what I quoted.

Though that is not a quote from Nietzsche, but someone interpreting his work.
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Re: Conversion from Islam
Reply #39 - November 16, 2009, 06:31 PM

Quote from: Hassan on November 16, 2009, 07:51 AM
Well I shall reserve my complete judgment about him until I have explored him more thoroughly, but the lectures have said many times that Nietzsche is grossly misunderstood and misused and he cited the idea of the superman as being a case in point.

Besides - unlike religion where one has to defend the shitty bits - Nietzsche is not a Prophet of God nor a religion - so I can take what I want and reject what I want.

+2

All the philosophers, from Plato to Aristotle, Omar Khayyam, Lao Tzu, Gautama Siddharta, Confucious, to Kant, Wittgentstein, Sartre, Camus and Neitzsche and all the rest living or dead, were full of many insights and questions and even some answers about life, the universe, and the human condition. None of them, and especially not the allegedly "divinely inspired" philosophers (Jesus, Mohammed etc.) need to be taken as 100% right, or considered "infallible". That's where the danger lies, to start considering a human being as somehow perfect and incapable of mistakes or "purified" of the human qualities of greed, narcissism, selfishness, power-mongering and insecurity.

That doesn't mean we can't learn what we need to learn to expand our own understanding of the riddle of existence, as long as we don't get caught in the trap of expecting any 1 person to become our "salvation" or for any 1 person to have "all the answers". If there is any "truth", it is not concentrated in any 1 individual but accessible to most of us inside our own consciousness. A wise person learns from everyone but doesn't blindly follow anyone. I think we are not here in this life to follow anyone, we're here to gather wisdom from every experience and from each other, and try to synthesize it as best as we ourselves can understand and articulate it if we want, to others, without becoming lords and masters over others. But ultimately, we are all human, and so were the greatest minds that ever lived, not to mention, they were *ALL* products of their own times. They made mistakes, but we can learn from their mistakes as well as from their achievements and their insightful words. It's just crucial to never become a worshipper of another human, whether dead or alive.

"Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
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Re: Conversion from Islam
Reply #40 - November 16, 2009, 07:45 PM

Quote from: allat on November 16, 2009, 06:31 PM
All the philosophers, from Plato to Aristotle, Omar Khayyam, Lao Tzu, Gautama Siddharta, Confucious, to Kant, Wittgentstein, Sartre, Camus and Neitzsche and all the rest living or dead, were full of many insights and questions and even some answers about life, the universe, and the human condition. None of them, and especially not the allegedly "divinely inspired" philosophers (Jesus, Mohammed etc.) need to be taken as 100% right, or considered "infallible". That's where the danger lies, to start considering a human being as somehow perfect and incapable of mistakes or "purified" of the human qualities of greed, narcissism, selfishness, power-mongering and insecurity.

That doesn't mean we can't learn what we need to learn to expand our own understanding of the riddle of existence, as long as we don't get caught in the trap of expecting any 1 person to become our "salvation" or for any 1 person to have "all the answers". If there is any "truth", it is not concentrated in any 1 individual but accessible to most of us inside our own consciousness. A wise person learns from everyone but doesn't blindly follow anyone. I think we are not here in this life to follow anyone, we're here to gather wisdom from every experience and from each other, and try to synthesize it as best as we ourselves can understand and articulate it if we want, to others, without becoming lords and masters over others. But ultimately, we are all human, and so were the greatest minds that ever lived, not to mention, they were *ALL* products of their own times. They made mistakes, but we can learn from their mistakes as well as from their achievements and their insightful words. It's just crucial to never become a worshipper of another human, whether dead or alive.

Very well said indeed!
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Re: Conversion from Islam
Reply #41 - November 16, 2009, 08:00 PM

Exactly my sentiments. With the philosophers, you can take what you think is fitting and leave out what isn't. I like to think of myself as an existentialist, because it takes the human as the subject and closely matches practical life. There are some things that I don't agree with, but I know that they are fallible humans. What else can I expect?

The problem with religion though, is it's absolute nature and claim to "truth". Something that you need to take as a whole or completely reject altogether. There really isn't any room to express doubt on any aspect of religion, once you have made that step in expressing doubt, then you are an apostate, which is the long and short of it.

I read a book by AJ Ayer called "Language, Truth and Logic". I liked the book and what it was trying to get to, but I thought that by writing a book like that, you were rejecting an audience outright. There is no way you could engage a religious audience and try to have a discussion with them if you said to them that making statements about metaphysics simply didn't make any sense.

In the case of Nietzsche, you really have to go over his work many times to appreciate what he's conveying. I had to read "Beyond Good and Evil" twice and that was after listening to a lecture series about him. I still feel that I've not fully grasped him and there needs to be a degree called "The philosophy of Nietzsche!"
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Re: Conversion from Islam
Reply #42 - November 16, 2009, 09:58 PM

One thing to remember about Nietzsche: he did go quite insane. This should be borne in mind whenever contemplating possible "truth" in his musings.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
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Re: Conversion from Islam
Reply #43 - November 16, 2009, 10:12 PM

Quote from: osmanthus on November 16, 2009, 09:58 PM
One thing to remember about Nietzsche: he did go quite insane. This should be borne in mind whenever contemplating possible "truth" in his musings.

True, He did lose it in the end. I think his last work was written about a decade before his death. I just think about how much he could have written had he not been ill and what further influence it could have had.
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Re: Conversion from Islam
Reply #44 - November 16, 2009, 11:36 PM

Quote from: osmanthus on November 16, 2009, 09:58 PM
One thing to remember about Nietzsche: he did go quite insane. This should be borne in mind whenever contemplating possible "truth" in his musings.

That is used by some to dismiss his writing entirely - something I certainly don't accept.
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Re: Conversion from Islam
Reply #45 - February 09, 2011, 07:27 PM

Quote from: Omaar Khayaam on November 16, 2009, 10:12 PM
I just think about how much he could have written had he not been ill and what further influence it could have had.

"We should all have sex with each other until we are all the same colour"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzc_921FAWA&feature=player_embedded

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Re: Conversion from Islam
Reply #46 - February 12, 2011, 01:33 PM

I have switched to Deist philosophy from Islam. I do find peace of mind, and much better outcome of my desires following Deism, which I did not do following Islam. This is probably because I have no stupid restrictions keeping me from succeeding with my life.

The most merciful Allah, who is more merciful than your own mortal mother, is capable of punishing you for eternity for a finite sin committed in a finite lifetime with finite knowledge, while your mother nor any living creature that is NOT a sadistic mother fucker would never commit such an act.
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Re: Conversion from Islam
Reply #47 - February 12, 2011, 01:57 PM

Quote from: IsLame on February 09, 2011, 07:27 PM
"We should all have sex with each other until we are all the same colour"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzc_921FAWA&feature=player_embedded

LOL! It won't necessarily result in homogeneous products afa colour is concerned, but yes! the resulting chaos[ ] will make a search for 'purity' meaningless and will make people focus on other sensible things to assess an individual's worth.

The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
Thomas Paine

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
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