Progressive Islam

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Re: Progressive Islam
Reply #90 - February 20, 2011, 11:26 PM

That's an interesting thought kenan. I would think (in my humble understanding) that Muhammad is the attainable manifest form (or veil) and the unattainable object petit a would be the essence of Muhammad, the absolute godhead, the beloved behind every veil.

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Re: Progressive Islam
Reply #91 - February 20, 2011, 11:30 PM

Quote from: Kenan on February 20, 2011, 11:22 PM
This might be a stupid question but still ... Can Muhammad be seen in terms of objet petit a - an unattainable, ideal figure always beyond reach? (thanks olweasel)

I think he's known as al-Insaan al-Kaamil; the universal man, the ideal man. Kinda like the idea of the Buddha; a human that has attained a state of perfection.

I guess one might say that Muhammad, according to Islam, represented or embodied the perfect human being, and that all must, therefore, seek to emulate him, as he represents the paradigm, the epitome, of human enlightenment and perfection.
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Re: Progressive Islam
Reply #92 - February 20, 2011, 11:34 PM

Yes, zeb, it's interesting however that Ibn Arabi made the claim that Muhammad, as the Perfect Man, has the right to call himself God because he is the perfect mirror in which God can contemplate Himself.
However, you're right, I think the "state" of being a Perfect Man is attainable and so not technically the objet petit a which is always beyond reach.

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Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
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Re: Progressive Islam
Reply #93 - February 21, 2011, 12:03 AM

Yes, it's more like an abstract concept. It doesn't exist in the same way that an individual exists, but an individual is capable of embodying the concept. It's much the same as a physical object cannot literally become the predicate called 'blueness,' it can only possess that concept or predicate as part of its being. Although, in the case of being the 'universal man,' it doesn't comprise just a part of the individual's being, but rather, it constitutes its entirety.

Quote
Ibn Arabi

Wasn't Ibn Arabi the guy that said, 'there is nothing under my cloak that is not Allah' and was subsequently and quite rightly lynched by a mob of raging beardos? In any case, I understand what he says about being just a 'mirror,' and that this state bears some semblance to the nature of God.

I think I actually remember the Tailor stating at some point, or maybe I read it elsewhere, that the 'baatin,' linguistically means 'empty, void, null.' I guess this 'nothingness' is the default nature or attribute of God; 'laysa kamithlihi shay''; 'there is nothing like him.' I take this quite literally, and I understand it to be that God does not resemble any predicate or object. Hence, its nature is nothingness.

But anyway, if one becomes like nothing, as in the ascetic who attains moksha, or the bodhisattva who attains nirvana, then one immediately reaches a state like that of God's own nature. When a person does not identify one's own self (if such a person retained a sense of self at all) as being anything, neither man nor animal, neither rock nor tree, then one merely becomes a mirror that is aware of everything else, yet does not associate itself with any emotion, body, individual, identity, etc.
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Re: Progressive Islam
Reply #94 - February 21, 2011, 12:06 AM

I think that was Hallaj that was unfortunately murdered for his ecstatic utterings but I found this interesting: "and was subsequently and quite rightly lynched"

why quite rightly? for "casting his pearls before swine?"

At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
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Re: Progressive Islam
Reply #95 - February 21, 2011, 12:19 AM

That was a dash of irony thrown in for good measure.

I'm sorry to say that I intended nothing interesting by it.
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Re: Progressive Islam
Reply #96 - February 21, 2011, 03:06 AM

What is it that makes a man perfect? Is there a checklist?

"Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
- Robert Louis Stevenson
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Re: Progressive Islam
Reply #97 - February 21, 2011, 03:27 AM

As far as I know, the sufi idea of the Perfect Man is actualised in a person when they are perfect reflections of God's will. They are in union with the thoughts (or divine archetypes) of God at all time.
The Perfect Man is also seen as the qutb (pole or Atlas figure that holds apart the sky and the earth) and barzakh (the intermediatory between God and the sensible world) so can be as a kind of fulcrum through which everything is seen - the measure of everything.
The Perfect Man is, in another sense, the totality of all creation as it is, at all times. For creation taken as a whole is a Perfect reflection for God to contemplate Himself even if, from our limited human perspective, we are not perfect mirrors.
Of course, there is a sortof contradiction here because everything as it is, is as God wants it to be, and so Muhammad and a "sinner" are both perfect in their respective roles but their difference comes from their own understanding of their situation as manifestations of the Divine Will.

At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
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