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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Do you think using deception in psychological or social research is ethically acceptable?
  • Yes - 3 (75%)
  • No - 0 (0%)
  • Not sure - 1 (25%)
  • Total Voters: 4

 Topic: Deception research and ethics of experimentation on humans

 (Read 2222 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Deception research and ethics of experimentation on humans
     OP - June 03, 2011, 07:38 AM

    Okay, I'm not sure if this thread has been started before but I searched for it and nothing came up, so I'm sorry if I'm spamming. So, lately I've been thinking a lot about the ethics of experimentation on humans and the ongoing debate about deception research.
    I chose yes but I want to clarify a few things. My feeling is that, yes it is ethically acceptable, however it does depend on the type of experiment. For example, I would approve of deception in experiments such as Stanley Milgram's obedience to authority experiments. In that case, I approve of his ways because the question he was asking was worth finding an answer to (the end justifies the means) and I don't feel like he caused any significant damage or inhumanely manipulated his subjects. However, I don't support this type of experimentation if it was playing with human lives or was inhumane or non-consensual and dangerous no matter how important it was to find an answer to a scientific problem (e.g. Tuskegee syphilis experiment).

    I was also interested about what people here thought about experimentation on humans or using human bodies or human parts after the person's death without their consent, in general. For example, The Irish Giant, Charles Byrne, who despite clearly requesting and paying someone to be buried at sea instead of being studied after his death, was purchased by the owner of the Hunterian Museum where his skeleton in now up for display. One part of me finds that acceptable because I mean really the guy is dead and it's a chance to study the science of gigantism etc. But another part of me resents that idea because it was his deathbed wish and one must respect that. I don't know lol what does everyone think?

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  • Re: Deception research and ethics of experimentation on humans
     Reply #1 - June 03, 2011, 07:38 AM

    Oh and please explain the reasons behind your choice/vote.

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  • Re: Deception research and ethics of experimentation on humans
     Reply #2 - June 03, 2011, 09:15 AM

    I will answer this when I've cleared my thoughts up (a bit) on morality in general. Tongue
  • Re: Deception research and ethics of experimentation on humans
     Reply #3 - June 03, 2011, 04:36 PM

    LOL kayyy. I'll be waiting for your post. I'm sure you'll have something interesting to say  grin12

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  • Re: Deception research and ethics of experimentation on humans
     Reply #4 - June 03, 2011, 04:44 PM

    Yeah don't hold your breath...

    But I'm curious to know under what circumstances you think the ends justify the means.
  • Re: Deception research and ethics of experimentation on humans
     Reply #5 - June 03, 2011, 04:46 PM

    Convicted murderers should be used for experiments, that way they can give something back.  Even in their case, it should be optional though.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Deception research and ethics of experimentation on humans
     Reply #6 - June 03, 2011, 06:16 PM

    Okay, I'm not sure if this thread has been started before but I searched for it and nothing came up, so I'm sorry if I'm spamming. So, lately I've been thinking a lot about the ethics of experimentation on humans and the ongoing debate about deception research.
    I chose yes but I want to clarify a few things. My feeling is that, yes it is ethically acceptable, however it does depend on the type of experiment. For example, I would approve of deception in experiments such as Stanley Milgram's obedience to authority experiments. In that case, I approve of his ways because the question he was asking was worth finding an answer to (the end justifies the means) and I don't feel like he caused any significant damage or inhumanely manipulated his subjects. However, I don't support this type of experimentation if it was playing with human lives or was inhumane or non-consensual and dangerous no matter how important it was to find an answer to a scientific problem (e.g. Tuskegee syphilis experiment).


    Lol I just handed an essay in on this exact same topic.  No joke.   wacko

    However although I agree that sometimes it is acceptable to mislead the participants, I don't think Milgram needed to breach ethics in order to get those results.  I mean that's one of the main defences of his methods, that the findings could never have been gathered without him doing those things, but his study has been replicated without violating those ethics, and the findings were the same. 

    Of course there is the fact that no one complained, and only a small percentage regretted participating, I don't really think it negates the fact that his study was somewhat unethical and as shown, not necessary.

    Although, Milgram is nowhere near as unethical as some of the other studies out there from back then.  It curdles my stomach reading about them

    Quote

    I was also interested about what people here thought about experimentation on humans or using human bodies or human parts after the person's death without their consent, in general. For example, The Irish Giant, Charles Byrne, who despite clearly requesting and paying someone to be buried at sea instead of being studied after his death, was purchased by the owner of the Hunterian Museum where his skeleton in now up for display. One part of me finds that acceptable because I mean really the guy is dead and it's a chance to study the science of gigantism etc. But another part of me resents that idea because it was his deathbed wish and one must respect that. I don't know lol what does everyone think?


    I think its totally unnacceptable tbh, I want to do with my dead body what I want to do with it.  If I haven't consented then no, it shouldn't ever happen.

    I mean, if somehow this became a proper part of dying, ie society is all about no consent to use a persons dead body, then why not me opening a 'whore house of the dead' for necrophiliacs?  I shouldn't need permission either, if its ethically acceptable to cut up a persons dead body after their death, why can't you shag them too?

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  • Re: Deception research and ethics of experimentation on humans
     Reply #7 - June 03, 2011, 06:48 PM

    Quote
    I think its totally unnacceptable tbh, I want to do with my dead body what I want to do with it.  If I haven't consented then no, it shouldn't ever happen.

    I mean, if somehow this became a proper part of dying, ie society is all about no consent to use a persons dead body, then why not me opening a 'whore house of the dead' for necrophiliacs?  I shouldn't need permission either, if its ethically acceptable to cut up a persons dead body after their death, why can't you shag them too?

    It might be insane for me to ask this but why not? Why is it socially unacceptable? If the person is dead, then why does it matter what you do with them? I'm not trying to argue for or against, I just want to know the reasons behind your statement.

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  • Re: Deception research and ethics of experimentation on humans
     Reply #8 - June 03, 2011, 06:54 PM

    But I'm curious to know under what circumstances you think the ends justify the means.

    When the experiment doesn't psychologically fuck people up or put their lives in danger. I'm not sure how I feel about carrying out dangerous or inhumane experiments even with the person's informed consent though.
    But if there are no such effects then I think deception research is acceptable.

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  • Re: Deception research and ethics of experimentation on humans
     Reply #9 - June 03, 2011, 07:04 PM

    It's might be insane for me to ask this but why not? Why is it socially unacceptable? If the person is dead, then why does it matter what you do with them? I'm not trying to argue for or against, I just want to know the reasons behind your statement.


    It matters to me because I certainly don't want to get as fucked in death as I was in life thank you very much.  If its allowed then to what lengths can I go to to ensure my body is not violated upon my death without my consent?  What kind of psychological damage long term could be caused by living under the knowledge that your body is no longer yours to command?

    I mean, of course, you are dead, you are an empty husk of lifeless flesh and you won't exist to care, and some people CONSENT to donate their body, but what if this is an enforced thing?  there is a whole difference betwen volutarily consenting and living life knowing you gave the choice for it to happen, than how I know I would feel if I learned that I no longer had the right to my body, dead or alive.

    Guess I would have to plan ways to immolate myself before death to protect my body.

    For all you know, such a removal of rights could actually create a learned helplessness because what is the point in caring anymore?

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Deception research and ethics of experimentation on humans
     Reply #10 - June 03, 2011, 07:06 PM

    I shouldn't need permission either, if its ethically acceptable to cut up a persons dead body after their death, why can't you shag them too?


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  • Re: Deception research and ethics of experimentation on humans
     Reply #11 - June 03, 2011, 07:07 PM

     Cheesy

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  • Re: Deception research and ethics of experimentation on humans
     Reply #12 - June 03, 2011, 07:48 PM

    When the experiment doesn't psychologically fuck people up or put their lives in danger. I'm not sure how I feel about carrying out dangerous or inhumane experiments even with the person's informed consent though.
    But if there are no such effects then I think deception research is acceptable.


    I don't know. I think there is more to consider than just psychological effects. The problem with 'ends justify the means' is that different people draw the finishing line at different places. I can see such experiments descending into very questionable practices very quickly.
  • Re: Deception research and ethics of experimentation on humans
     Reply #13 - June 03, 2011, 08:19 PM

    Now for something completely unrelated; I keep misreading this thread title as 'Deceptacon Research' and getting all excited. >.<

    Yeah, I've got absolutely nothing to add to this thread...
  • Re: Deception research and ethics of experimentation on humans
     Reply #14 - June 04, 2011, 04:07 PM

    CEMB - Where we ask the questions that really matter.

     Cheesy

    It matters to me because I certainly don't want to get as fucked in death as I was in life thank you very much.  If its allowed then to what lengths can I go to to ensure my body is not violated upon my death without my consent?  What kind of psychological damage long term could be caused by living under the knowledge that your body is no longer yours to command?

    I mean, of course, you are dead, you are an empty husk of lifeless flesh and you won't exist to care, and some people CONSENT to donate their body, but what if this is an enforced thing?  there is a whole difference betwen volutarily consenting and living life knowing you gave the choice for it to happen, than how I know I would feel if I learned that I no longer had the right to my body, dead or alive.

    Guess I would have to plan ways to immolate myself before death to protect my body.

    For all you know, such a removal of rights could actually create a learned helplessness because what is the point in caring anymore?

    I see.

    I think there is more to consider than just psychological effects.

    Like?

    The problem with 'ends justify the means' is that different people draw the finishing line at different places. I can see such experiments descending into very questionable practices very quickly.

    That is true, but there are many experiments that people make such a big fuss about when I really don't see what the problem is. I don't see anything wrong with deceiving people for some time to get an unbiased or important answer to a question, with the conditions I stated before.
    I mean all the medicines that pharmacies sell today had to go through clinical trials and a double-blind trial had to be a part of that at some point, where certain people with the disease were given a placebo. One could ask if that is inhumane or 'worth it'.

    Quote
    Now for something completely unrelated; I keep misreading this thread title as 'Deceptacon Research' and getting all excited. >.<

     
    Cheesy


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