Great contribution, but limitations, of Arab/Persian Astronomers

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Great contribution, but limitations, of Arab/Persian Astronomers
OP - July 14, 2011, 06:46 PM

Excellent documentary presented by physicist Jim Al-Khalili, (father Iraqi Muslim, mother English Christian - he's not religious).

He summarises the profound contributions made by Arab/Persian scientists during the "Islamic Golden Age" to astronomy - taking Ptolemy's work (Almagest) and building on it, making accurate calculations to correct anomalies within it, but never quite being able to make that leap away from his geocentric view (eventually made by Copernicus using their works to help him detect the anomalies but find a radical solution - making the leap that they couldn't.)

As I watched this documentary I couldn't help wondering: Was the Qur'an a help or a hinderance to these unquestionably great minds of the Middle Ages?

Perhaps a bit of both. The Qur'an was a catalyst that drove the Arabs to build a huge empire and motivated many great minds to study and learning. As they say; 'Science follows the money' and science thrived under enlightened Caliphs and Amirs. The fact that the Qur'an and timings of Islamic prayers focus on the heavenly bodies, astronomy was a science that received a great deal of attention. Though ultimately it held them back as they could not break out of the the geocentric view that the Qur'an upholds.

Perhaps if they were able to doubt the Qur'an's claim to being the work of God - they could have - they were clearly nearly there. One has to wonder what held them back?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG0gOMq4ihE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2bVMkwjmAw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9iTQg5iyx4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWgwULmmZjA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI187ih5z0I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHuPCiC5jHM
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Re: Great contribution, but limitations, of Arab/Persian Astronomers
Reply #1 - July 16, 2011, 12:41 PM

I love that guy i read his book the pathfinders. it was quite intresting.

Lost somewhere between immensity and eternity is our tiny planetary home. [carl sagan]
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Re: Great contribution, but limitations, of Arab/Persian Astronomers
Reply #2 - July 16, 2011, 01:11 PM

I've seen this documentary a few times.

It's quite interesting. However, I just took it at face value and didn't ponder as to what held such a society back. It could have been one thing, or a combination of things. Perhaps the Quran, though a driving force initially, caused them to burn out.

"If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
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Re: Great contribution, but limitations, of Arab/Persian Astronomers
Reply #3 - July 18, 2011, 08:45 PM

Why did ancient India lose its scientific edge? Why did Chinese civilisation lose its scientific edge? Its all part of the weft and weave of human civilisational experience, knowledge spreading by osmosis across cities, empires, across time.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- billy
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Re: Great contribution, but limitations, of Arab/Persian Astronomers
Reply #4 - July 18, 2011, 08:59 PM

Quote from: Hassan on July 14, 2011, 06:46 PM
As I watched this documentary I couldn't help wondering: Was the Qur'an a help or a hinderance to these unquestionably great minds of the Middle Ages?

Perhaps a bit of both. The Qur'an was a catalyst that drove the Arabs to build a huge empire and motivated many great minds to study and learning. As they say; 'Science follows the money' and science thrived under enlightened Caliphs and Amirs.

Its very interesting. I think you are right - conditions on the ground, resources and stability in a certain era, and an openness to translation and knowledge transfer all contributed to this. But I find wondering about whether the Quran was a possible catalyst for this, to be problematic. For example, is Chinese scientific achievement in ancient times ascribed to innate qualities of Confucian texts or the Dhamapadda? Or Indian scientific and mathematical discoveries, ascribable to the bhagavad gita? At some level, its just reductive to frame it in these terms, and even asks the question on the ground of those who want to elevate the Quran to a level where it can be made responsible for all that is good in humankind.

Science flourishes where there is:

(1) Cosmopolitanism

(2) Stability

(3) Intellectual resources

(4) Material resources and patronage devoted to scientific study

(5) The support and tolerance towards free thinking and scepticism

(6) Openness to opposing views and cultures

I think these are the basic conditions that have prevailed to a greater or lesser extent in places and times in history in many different realms - from Asia, China, India, Arabia, Persia, Greece, Europe, America - sometimes in small pockets, sometimes on a wide scale.

I think that if those conditions and values are not priveliged or valued, then there is a closing of the mind, and consequently, of science. I think the 'Golden Age' of Islamic domains had a period when in certain city states and areas some of these conditions prevailed. But then the mind closed, the literalists prevailed, and these conditions and ideas even today struggle to prevail in large parts (possibly the mainstream) of the modern ummah civilisation too.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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