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Theme Changer

 Topic: Women in Islam

 (Read 11671 times)
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  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #30 - December 04, 2010, 09:19 PM

    Well, I think a rational person like you can deduce that the issue here isn't people who were born into Islam, it is people who converted to it.

    Yeah, but my point is that if you are going to say to Luthiel in a very pretentious manner that she only converted to Islam for sexual reasons (to marry an arab man or whatever), then one can apply the same logic and say that you only left Islam for sexual reasons.


    Before we get into that, I can tell you why I left Islam. It has to do with "Intense Realism"

    OK dude, you know that I know that you have been on this forum longer than you would have us believe.  What are you hiding?  Why are you not creating an intro thread, despite being repeatedly asked to?

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #31 - December 04, 2010, 09:57 PM

    Yeah, but my point is that if you are going to say to Luthiel in a very pretentious manner that she only converted to Islam for sexual reasons (to marry an arab man or whatever), then one can apply the same logic and say that you only left Islam for sexual reasons.


    Does that actually make sense to you, or do I need to reword it in order to make you understand how absurd it sounds?

    I sincerely hope I don't have to.

    And "pretentious" as in the links in your sig?

    Quote
    OK dude, you know that I know that you have been on this forum longer than you would have us believe.


    Well then, you should know, that I also know, that you know, that I have very little respect for people like you. It is a common trend amongst ex Monkeys, they get an IT degree and read a book authored by a European and then they consider themselves as "intellectuals".

    Quote
    What are you hiding?


    I was apprehensive about sharing my beliefs, I explain why in this thread, along with sharing my current beliefs.

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=13448.0

    But you how showcased the lowbrow debating tactics of Atheists, although you probably don't even realize this yourself.

    Just like how you don't realize that standing up for Luthiel actually makes her look worse, as she appears unable to convey her thoughts without a "man" telling her what to say (as with both Islam and Atheism). Except in this case you have gone one step further and actually spoken for her.

    In this case, "speaking" for her is attempting to attack my character, or my beliefs, or anything but my statements.  Roll Eyes

    Quote
      Why are you not creating an intro thread, despite being repeatedly asked to?


    I find it to be rather trite.
  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #32 - December 04, 2010, 10:11 PM

    Pauk - smite 1 for trolling. 

    Get back on topic, guys.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #33 - December 04, 2010, 10:48 PM

    Surprise of surprises[at least to me] this was compiled by,close your eyes, a group called--Arab Atheists!!


    actually it was compiled by me only. It's only the narration that wasn't my job. And it was translated to English by a Christian friend of mine.
    I am glad to see that after nearly two years, this work is still being noticed.

  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #34 - December 04, 2010, 11:01 PM

    A VERY BIG thnkyu FROM ME!



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #35 - December 05, 2010, 04:41 PM

    the only islamic source is holy Quran & muhammed's sunna . any thing else is just a humain talk . we muslims do not beleive that imam's interpretations is somthing respectable . coz they are humain .the only holy people in islam is prophets . the last one of them is muhammed .
    & their is some muslims who do not beleive in hadith in all. they beleive in quran only.
    so you can said that the pure islam is quran only


    You talk as though no less than Allah himself came down from his throne one day and personally penned the Qur’an, and to this day it remains perfect and complete in its original form.

    The Qur’an was written by men, some of it revised, adapted, expanded upon, wrongly translated, even some of it destroyed, and is no more or less authentic than any given Hadith or Tafsir, or any manuscript of that time, even the Judean scripture it was copy-pasted from. You’re still putting your faith in the written words of men. You’re still putting your faith in man-made compilation of myths and ambiguous text, in a shitty, inferior book of oral traditions full of petty local squabbles and the mundane micro-management of an age and culture you never even knew.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #36 - December 05, 2010, 04:47 PM

    Quote
    You’re still putting your faith in man-made compilation of myths and ambiguous text, in a shitty, inferior book of oral traditions full of petty local squabbles and the mundane micro-management of an age and culture you never even knew.

     
     
    Ishina Afro


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #37 - December 05, 2010, 04:59 PM

    Quote
    The Qur’an was written by men, some of it revised, adapted, expanded upon, wrongly translated, even some of it destroyed, and is no more or less authentic than any given Hadith or Tafsir, or any manuscript of that time, even the Judean scripture it was copy-pasted from. You’re still putting your faith in the written words of men. You’re still putting your faith in man-made compilation of myths and ambiguous text, in a shitty, inferior book of oral traditions full of petty local squabbles and the mundane micro-management of an age and culture you never even knew.


    Bingo!...and think whatever you think you know is the incontestable truth just because you have been told it's the truth!



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #38 - December 05, 2010, 05:23 PM

    What if a text didn't claim itself to be revealed, or even a scripture of any sort for that matter? What if it merely claims for an author for itself? What if it doesn't declare a divine status of somesort of the author of itself within itself? What if it merely states what it is, without being emphatic. Like the title of a book that is appropriate for its subject and contents?

    What if a text, which is religious, claims for itself to be faulty, itself?

    So we have two things. 1) claims of Divine origin (revelation or authorship) 2) faultyness (compilation)

    A text that doesn't claim to be a revelation or authored by any sort of Divinity itself and rather admits some faultyness of its ownself. What if I merely read it, and find myself agreeing with it? What if it tallies with my own reasoning? I accept it not on the basis of claims or its lack of defects but on finding that what it offers appears to true. What then?
  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #39 - December 05, 2010, 06:05 PM

    Quote
    A text that doesn't claim to be a revelation or authored by any sort of Divinity itself and rather admits some faultyness of its ownself. What if I merely read it, and find myself agreeing with it? What if it tallies with my own reasoning? I accept it not on the basis of claims or its lack of defects but on finding that what it offers appears to true. What then?


    Great ! I feel that's the way it should be!Received wisdom like the constitution that can be amended! In fact that's what Buddha tells his followers!



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #40 - December 05, 2010, 06:11 PM

    Exactly.  Scripture depends on its supernatural origins to make its claim as the absolute truth.  Parables without a God become stories subject to literary criticism, divine law without the divine become regular law subject to practicality, logic, and possible removal, divine command morality removing the divine becomes regular ethics and morality placed in the realm of philosophy and reason.  In other words it becomes like the dozen of other self self, legal, and meditational books already mentioned.  Subject to change, revision, and discard by mere mortals. 

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #41 - December 05, 2010, 06:17 PM

    Quote
    Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. Do not believe anything because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything because it is written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and the benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

     ~ the Buddha

    Haha, man gotta love Buddhism. It based itself off Jainism and Hinduism. But at the end Hindu scholars and philosophers in turn hijacked much of its ideas/concepts, metaphors and words/terminology and gave them a theistic meaning.
  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #42 - December 05, 2010, 06:33 PM

    Exactly.  Scripture depends on its supernatural origins to make its claim as the absolute truth.  Parables without a God become stories subject to literary criticism, divine law without the divine become regular law subject to practicality, logic, and possible removal, divine command morality removing the divine becomes regular ethics and morality placed in the realm of philosophy and reason.  In other words it becomes like the dozen of other self self, legal, and meditational books already mentioned.  Subject to change, revision, and discard by mere mortals.  


    Excellent post.

    I think Hassan's metaphor of "removing the glasses of faith" or something describes well what scriptures are like to the believers. They see things which only faith makes them do. And they avoid or shun all critiques presented by others let alone attempting to offer some themselves.

    Inspired by him. I too would like to add another analogy. The beauty of scriptures are like a husband regarding his wife, the husband says "my wife is the prettiest of all'(Hassan's analogy). Claims on scriptures are all like a woman wrapped up in garment.

    The Quran is almost fully comprised mainly of "this is what it is because it simply is" claims or "you are irrational/stupid or immoral or rebellious for rejecting this" denouncing of its naysayers. - Along with almost every fucking verse ending with Allah's attributes. Why. the fuck. is that. even necessary? I mean come on now. Its like "heres a load of bullshit slightly covered with cream at the top" so that you swallow it - You keep removing every claim verse and its like stripping off layers and layers of clothing only to find a bony female with ribs sticking out, hardly any flesh.
  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #43 - December 05, 2010, 11:45 PM

    funny.. some of this *mufasirin* in this video they was heritics .hhh .
    like zamakhchari .
  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #44 - December 05, 2010, 11:53 PM

    Ishina
    its easy to said somthing . but its hard to prove it
    bla bla bla ...where is the evidence ? 
  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #45 - December 05, 2010, 11:56 PM

    how you feel now mhd-sat??  you work very hard to post this mambo jambo... but i just destroy all this by one post ?? how you feel ?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #46 - December 05, 2010, 11:58 PM

     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #47 - December 06, 2010, 12:14 AM

    how you feel now OP ??  you work very hard to post this mambo jambo islam hate... but i just destroy all this by one post ?? how you feel ?


    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #48 - December 06, 2010, 12:48 AM

    Dear mhd-sat,
    I suppose when you submit to Allah you are forced to surrender reason permanently!
    Anyway inject this into your brain,it will do you a lot of good trust me,at least it will stop you from making a fool of yourself! Peace!

    Quote
    Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. Do not believe anything because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything because it is written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and the benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.


    Wish I could have translated it into Arabic for you!



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #49 - December 06, 2010, 12:54 AM

    do you believe in Jinn?  Wink

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #50 - December 06, 2010, 01:43 AM



    001_wub

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #51 - December 06, 2010, 07:42 AM

    ^^   If that question was directed to me ,then the answer to that question is that I totally agree with and practice what is mentioned in the quote and am a sort of humanist who is not bothered about the existence/non existence of 'the all important GOD'



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Women in Islam
     Reply #52 - August 09, 2011, 08:31 AM

    Rape, mutilation: Pakistan’s tribal justice for women


    This picture shows an acid attack survivor (L) learning to walk down the stairs with a stick. — 

    Quote
    Quote
    MULTAN: On April 14, two men entered Asma Firdous’ home, cut off six of her fingers, slashed her arms and lips and then sliced off her nose. Before leaving the house, the men locked their 28-year-old victim inside.

    Asma, from impoverished Kohaur Junobi village in Pakistan’s south, was mutilated because her husband was involved in a dispute with his relatives, and they wanted revenge.

    Her fate is familiar in parts of Pakistan’s remote and feudal agricultural belts, where women are often used as bargaining chips in family feuds, and where the level of violence they face is increasing in frequency and brutality.

    At the hospital in nearby Multan town, Asma’s shocked parents sat quietly by her bedside and struggled to explain what the future holds for their now disfigured daughter.

    “I don’t know what will happen to her when she leaves here,” Asma’s father, Ghulam Mustafa, said, in a dilapidated ward heavy with the smell of antiseptic and blood, where other women, doused with acid or kerosene by relatives or fellow villagers, awaiting an equally uncertain future.

    Asked if Asma will return to her husband, her father remains silent.


    Pakistan is the world’s third-most dangerous country for women, after Afghanistan and the Democratic Republic of Congo, based on a survey conducted by the Thomson Reuters Foundation (link.reuters.com/jet92s)

    In its 2010 report, the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan says almost 800 women were victims of “honour killings” — murders aimed at preserving the honour of male relatives — and 2,900 women reported raped — almost eight a day.

    The bulk, or almost 2,600, were raped in Punjab alone, Pakistan’s most populous province.

    And the numbers are rising: media reports say crimes against women have risen 18 per cent in the year to May and the human rights commission believes its figures represent only a fraction of the attacks which take place across the country.

    Dr. Farzana Bari, director of Gender Studies at Quaid-i-Azam University, says Pakistan’s patriarchal society often condones discrimination against women, which is more prevalent among poor and uneducated rural families.

    That mindset can often influence the police and judiciary, which sometimes turn a blind eye to honour killings or rapes carried out to “punish” women.

    “I think honour killings are a symptom of vigilante justice,” she said. “And vigilante justice occurs in an environment where the state is unable to enforce its writ.”

    Tribal justice

    In rural areas, women are often shut out of the justice system, which is compromised by powerful landowners and feudal lords who dominate a hierarchy that makes it difficult — and deadly — for those with little education or social standing to speak out.

    Families or tribes then often take justice in their own hands, presiding over “jirgas” or “panchayats” — gatherings of elders that hand down punishments that include rape, killing or barter of women for crimes that include falling in love with a man deemed inappropriate or besmirching family honour.

    Some women are maimed just to settle scores.

    Members of the panchayat systems say the tradition is hard to shake because it is entrenched in the local culture and also because it is much more efficient than the regular courts.

    “In the settled areas there are courts but people can’t always get justice or compensation,” said lawyer and tribal elder Karim Masoud, who presides over both panchayat settlements and the mainstream court system.

    “With the jirgas, they can get compensation, and it takes less time to settle a dispute. It’s fairer and people don’t have to use bribes to get justice.”

    Zarmuhamad Afridi, who also attends jirga rulings in Pakistan’s northern tribal belt and works within the mainstream court system, said the jirga system survives because in many parts of Pakistan, a man’s honour is intrinsically linked to how his wife or daughter behave.

    “If a couple is not married and they are having a relationship, a jirga may rule that the woman should be shot,” Afridi said. “That is okay for many, because they have to protect family honour.”

    The slightest transgression by a woman — being seen talking to a man on the street, perhaps, or having an unknown phone number in a mobile — can bring harsh punishment and social ostracism of the family, he says, making the quick, harsh judgment of the panchayats popular.

    “Women are cherished here,” he said. “Men protect them. If a woman is out of her house then what is she doing? That is what people think here.”

    Many women are unable to speak out because they lack the support and education to understand their rights, activists say.

    But even those who dare often get nowhere.

    The most high profile instance of a violent ruling by a tribal court against a woman is that of the gang rape of Mukhtaran Mai, which took place near Multan in 2002.

    Mai was allegedly attacked to settle a matter of village honour, as decided by a panchayat. She was then paraded naked through her village.

    Unlike most rape victims, who face stark recriminations for speaking out, and who are sometimes even expected to commit suicide, she filed a criminal case against 14 men.

    Six men were convicted and sentenced to death that year, but in 2005 the Lahore High Court commuted one sentence to life in prison and acquitted the rest.

    Pakistan’s Supreme Court upheld that decision in April this year, in what rights activists said was a crushing blow to women’s and minority rights in Pakistan.

    The men were released days later. Mai said she is afraid they will return and kill her.

    Ali Dayan Hasan, senior researcher at Human Rights Watch’s South Asia division, said the lack of justice for women in cases like such as Mai’s is “a structural failing of the criminal justice system”.

     And that is from here

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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