OK before I go, the scientific miracles is the last claim for Islam's validity. And it's practically unchallengeable to a pious (and so ignorant) Muslim.
No one is impressed by the "scientific" miracles in the quran, not even many Muslims themselves, many Muslims don't even take those claims seriously, they just say they don't know what God meant with whatever is there and they believe it cuz they believe it.
Whereas a Muslim will say that , it'll be far too complex for human understanding unless deeply studied.
This will directly contradict the Quran itself though
[41. Surah Fussilat : Ayah 1-4]
"Ha'. Mim. This is a revelation from the Most Merciful, the Most Compassionate, a Book whose verses have been well-expounded; an Arabic Qur'an for those who have knowledge, A herald of good news and a warner, but most of them turn aside so they hear not."
The Quran should be simple and easy to understand not a complex Quantum Physics text where 90% of the people in the world won't even know what it means.
If the Quran is really that complex then God failed to be clear and concise.
The Quran has been deeply studied, it has been studied for 1400 Years, I said this on my previous post, there are people who even know the Quran by heart, the Quran has been studied so deep that there are so many different Maddhabs=Schools of thought throughout the Islamic world, there are so many scholars and translators that it would be completely asinine to say the Quran hasn't been studied deeply.
Take it this way, a paper written by a scientist in the field of Physics or Chemistry has helped many other scientists come up with new inventions within very few years, Einstein based his Knowledge on several previous Physicists that lived before him and he came up with TTR, Stephen Hawkings and many other Physicists use the knowledge of previous physicists to come up with new Theories and discoveries, now tell me one person who used the Quran that came up with an important invention or a relevant theory?
Why does the Quran look like it is written by a bunch of middle age goat herders when it talks about Semen coming from the region between the ribs and back bone?
Using the Quran won't even help u prove that the earth rotates around the sun because the Quran never mentions that the Earth rotates around the sun, it doesn't even speak about Earth's orbit.
I will admit that the Quran does contain some science in it, but, that is simply flawed middle age science and u will be able to tell this right after u finish reading those scientific claims or verses.
That's why I pointed towards answer 1 because if a question cannot be answered a Muslim will just say 'Even though we do not know why, we must obey Allah. We are certain Islam is genuine because of the miracles.'
And that is simply laughable because we can use the same logic to justify other beliefs as well, EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T KNOW WE MUST OBEY ZEUS, JESUS, VISHNU etc etc... that is completely ignorant, Muslims would certainly claim that Islam requires rationality and even the Quran itself turns to people with words such as DON'T U THINK, DON'T U SEE, DON'T U REALIZE which means it is asking for u to think and realize, and then saying that we don't know thus we have to obey is completely ignorant, if that logic was applied by all people then how do Muslims expect Christians or unbelievers to convert to Islam or they just have to Obey Allah and convert, surely one needs good reasons to convert.
The Quran is not a book of science, but a book of guidance. The ambiguous poetry is unmatched, the writing is complex beyond human ability.
If it is beyond human ability then what are we arguing about, how can u claim to know there is science or know anything about it if it is beyond our abilities, it is the same as to claim that u can lift the planet with ur hands and than say that it is impossible but u can do it, this looks like some kind of big time tautology to me.
If the Quran is really beyond human ability then an Atheist or Kuffar would be justified for not believing in it, he could simply say, I DON'T GET THIS STUFF and move on with his life doing something more fertile.
Withal, is it also not hypocritical to say that something is beyond my ability of understanding but I understand it anyways and believe it is true even though it is beyond my ability of understanding?
The rythmical flow as you read the Quran which also consists of miraculousness and intricacy is unmatched.
yeah yeah OK whatever, fancy language doesn't prove anything.
Just because the Quran is not written specifically, the complex god written lines are still being deciphered to this day because of that.
As it has already been aforementioned, the onus is on you to prove what this deciphered science is and how is it science, how can u decipher science from a book in the first place ?
U can decipher a certain lost language or formula but not knowledge, u can't decipher knowledge, u either have knowledge or u don't.
It is all up to u to prove that the Quran does contain any science that was not known by people during the period when the Quran was written.
The whole deciphering knowledge is nothing more than reading science where there is no science, if there is knowledge somewhere it should be clear and concise, do u need to decipher science from a scientific book? of course not, the science found in physics book is clear about what it is saying plus it is explained with examples in details.
de·ci·pher (d-sfr)
tr.v. de·ci·phered, de·ci·pher·ing, de·ci·phers
1. To read or interpret (ambiguous, obscure, or illegible matter). See Synonyms at solve.
2. To convert from a code or cipher to plain text; decode.
Do u know any scientific text or book that needs deciphering ?
The only things that need deciphering are texts not scientific knowledge how can u decipher scientific knowledge in the first place?
if the Quran contains Scientific Miracles = Scientific Knowledge then there should be no need for any deciphering because knowledge needs no deciphering only ambiguous codes or dead languages need deciphering and deciphering in the sense of a lost language or an ambiguous code is not the same as to what muslims mean when they refer deciphering the Quran, when deciphering a dead language you are trying to figure out what it says and not what it means, or more precisely what it says and means in a currently spoken language, u decipher a language or a text in order to see what it says not what it means, and convert it to a clear spoken language that everyone speaks or understands Muslims are trying to decipher what the Quran means which is not how deciphering works, u will eventually see what the text means after u decipher what it says whereas when u decipher a code u use a mathematical formula which has nothing to do with deciphering the quran, obviously the Quran is talking about the first type of deciphering but it doesn't work in the case of the Quran since the language used in the Quran is well understood amongst people and scholars and it is not a dead language, it is an established language who can be understood by people who speak Arabic, we have multiple dictionaries that help us identify what the Quran says, there are many tasfirs, commentaries and dictionaries which precisely deal with the meaning of the words used in the Quran, it is not like the QUran is written in Hieroglyphs or in Sumerian and it needs to be deciphered, in the sens of figuring out what the words in the text mean, this is not the case with the Quran, we know very well what every word in the Quran means, u have dictionaries such as Lisan Ul Arab, Lane's Lexicon, Al Jalayjan etc etc...
let's see what the word Scientific knowledge means:
knowl·edge (nlj)
n.
1. The state or fact of knowing.
2. Familiarity, awareness, or understanding gained through experience or study.
3. The sum or range of what has been perceived, discovered, or learned.
4. Learning; erudition: teachers of great knowledge.
5. Specific information about something.6. Carnal knowledge.
In this case the Deciphering Scientific Miracles = Scientific Knowledge corresponds with the 5th definition of the word, now tell me how do u decipher Scientific knowledge?
Do u need an FBI Cryptographer to decipher a scientific paper or what? of course not.
I don't know if I am being clear enough though.
But some scientists themselves have become Muslim such as Dr. Maurice Buccaile. Zakir Naik, who has studied the Quran, Torah and Bible, as aswell as science, still chose Islam.
Buccalie didn't convert to Islam, Zakir Fuckik was already a muslim and none of them are any legitimate scientists in the first place.
Why don't u try this:
Why 80% of the Worlds most important scientists are Atheists??
Why was Feynman an Atheist, why didn't he embrace Islam, why didn't Einstein become a Muslim if Islam was really the Truth ?
Also why don't u try this, why did so many Muslim scholars convert to Christianity after reading the Bible ?
here are some stuff for you to deal with:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imad_ud-din_Lahizhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Africanhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_A._Gabrielhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Barzanihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Mu%27eiyyadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abo_of_Tiflishttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Avetaranianhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdi_Allamhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Kazembek_(Russian_orientalist)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Mullahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_Rugovahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_RuetePreachers, Mullahs, Imams, Scholars and Dawah missionaries who converted to Christianity:
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Notable_Former_Muslims#Preachers.2C_Mullahs.2C_Imams.2C_Scholars_and_Dawah_missionaries_who_converted_to_ChristianityWhat about prominent Islamic Figures who became Atheists:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As%27ad_Abu_Khalilhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taslima_Nasrinhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismael_Adhamhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turan_Dursunhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javed_Akhtarhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirza_Fatali_Akhundovhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismail_Kadarehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Al-Khalilihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ma%27arrihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Rawandihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_ShaikhIt looks like there is a lot of stuff u have to consider in this case
, looks like this intelligent well educated Former Muslims left Islam for a reason, I wonder what would that be, could it be because Islam was so truthful that they couldn't handle it?
One reason is that the Quran has scientific miracles (See first paragraph.)
It doesn't and no one is impressed by those miracles not even Muslims themselves.
Again used answer 1 because of well, it's unanswerable, but you must obey because the Quran has scientific miracles.
it doesn't have any scientific Miracles, I know of no Muslim who has ever published a scientific paper in any scientific magazine or Journal to prove this claim.
Plus, the media is makes sure the Quran does not bring new scientific discoveries because the media is shaytaan.
We should not forget the burden of proof here.
Because our hard ship is going to challenge our devotion to Allah, that is what the qoute means. God is not a sadist because heaven is going to be much more significant than the present. Allah wants us witness when being judged.
Our Hardship is the result of his design, he knowingly created us like this.
Heaven?? what about hell and eternal torture? how does showing mercy to a certain group of people make u all merciful and showing no mercy whatsoever to the majority of intellectual agents at all make u all merciful?
What does Allah wants us witness when being judged mean?? it looks like some kind of fancy talk or cop out without any significant meaning.
It relates because we aren't supposed to doubt allah for that reason. Well that was said to me when people found out I left Islam. That doubting is losing faith, losing faith is the work of satan.
U still have to expatiate on why aren't we supposed to doubt Allah for whatever reason, I think doubt is accepted in Islam it is a form of temptation.
You have to give us a sufficient reason of why aren't we supposed to doubt Allah when we aren't sure if he exists in the first place.
How are u supposed to know the truth value of something if u have never tested it?
U test ur religion or faith or Islam, u see how it stands against the rest of the world's doctrines and philosophies and u come into a conclusion based on the evidence and proofs u have culled.
Do u even know how the truth value of something is set?
Let's say someone comes and tells me, Hey Sturm if u throw this rock up in the sky it will end on the moon, now am I supposed to take this on faith and simply believe this guy or I should challenge his claim and test it for myself, when u challenge something that means u doubt the truth value of that specific thing.
Because Allah wants to know hard strong is our devotion. Free-will is going to do evil, those who are made victims have to keep faith and hope in Allah to go to heaven. After all this world is irrelevant compared to the hereafter.
Allah Already knows what we will do before we do, that is the whole point of an all knowing(omniscient) god, he knows what u will do before he created u why would he wait and see how strong our devotion is when he already knows what we gonna do..
If Free will is going to cause evil then why did the most merciful god allow free will amongst human beings?
This goes completely against an all knowing and all merciful deity.
The assertion that this world is irrelevant compared to the hereafter is the dumbest thing I have ever heard, this world is obviously of the highest relevance, this world is so relevant that it will decide if u will receive an eternal bliss or eternal punishment, I think the hereafter is with no relevance at all because no matter what u do there won't bring any kind of consequences, no matter what u do in heaven is not gonna have an impact on anyone's health or well being and any kind of consequences whereas the actions or this world can have either the greatest achievable compliments and gifts such as Heaven or the most grievous punishment imaginable(hell).
Remember that in the prophets days, an obedient wife is considered to be imporatant. If a wife mistreats you and treats you with little respect, or insults you, there must be consequence, just like today. The Quran has been very merciful with women, especially in the days where women were very inferior to men. The Quran advises you to warn them, then not sleep with them, then hit them. And when you hit you hit without causing scars or bruising. Of course this is archaic today. But in the days of the prophet, treating women like this would be considered insane.
That is the whole problem, why should spouses be obedient to each other? Can't they just simply respect each other and treat each other with respect instead of beating each other?
Why can't the wife beat the husband if he misbehaves ? why can't there be such consequences for the husband? The quran only talks about the Husband beating his wife but never about women beating their husbands, if this method is so good and effective why can't woman practice it upon their husbands?
I would want to remind u that you shouldn't forget that the Quran is the word of God and it is universal, it is the absolute truth, the laws of God(Quran) apply to everyone and everywhere, u can't use the BACK THEN type of terminology when dealing with an universal law.
9/11 was a government propaganda and Islam is the absolute truth. The media is run by satan so therefore the media will restrict the light of Islam into reaching the masses.
Burden of Proof.
Topic: Rebuttal to CEMBadmins video 'Questions to Muslims'.