Late Introduction

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- UberSlave
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Late Introduction
OP - February 14, 2013, 10:10 PM

Hello everyone,
So, I’ve finally decided to do an intro. I’m not new to this forum, I have posted infrequently and I have lurked mercilessly. However, I have never made an intro because I kept thinking that I don’t belong or I shouldn’t get too involved with spreading my doubts. Now I’m unemployed, sitting at home with nowhere to go and I find myself visiting the site so frequently that I’ve decided to contribute more, with all you other Murtads.

I’m a middle aged guy who was born and raised in UK. Never felt I belonged to any culture fully, Desi culture was foreign to me and being raised in 70’s/80’s Britain with all its racism made me feel like I wasn’t an Englander either. But I appreciate and understand English culture more.
Islam back in the 70’s/80’s was a different thing too. I was programmed mainly with the Sunni brand of Islam by my Mother who is a non-educated villager. Back then it was just, do the 5 pillars of Islam, read the Quran, even though you don’t understand it, do halaal, don’t go near haraam, and if you copy the mannerisms of the Prophet, you’ll get some extra credit.
Throughout the years, I kept feeling that more and more stuff kept being asked of you. You have to do more, it’s not enough, and you need to do this and that and then the other.
I think I was more of the Islam lite sort of Muslim, and I thought that as I get older I’ll become more devout and learn more about Islam. But my brother got there first. He started watching videos in the 90’s, now he is constantly watching youtube, and always talking about the hereafter, end of the world stuff and how dua’s really do help, especially with keeping away evil and magic.

A few years ago I tried to learn more about Islam myself, as I’m getting on a bit now and thought I should start getting more devout like my brother. I’ve opened a fucking Pandora’s Box.
So much of what I thought Islam was is now exposed as being lies and deceit.
The perfect language in the Quran, that no one could challenge. The peaceful religion, spread because of the good examples of its followers. Giving equality to all humans. The perfect character of the Prophet. The perfected religion for all humans for all time. Mercy to all mankind.
The mask has slipped.
I’m now thinking, what a waste my life has been. One good thing is that I never got married because I could not go along with the arranged marriage thing, so I don’t have to worry about any kids being burdened with this crap. Many guys of my age have grown their beards and go mosque regularly, and some have teenage sons who are of the salafi mindset. I’m glad I’ve been spared that now.

I hope I can contribute to the site more in the coming future, even though it feels like most of you here are in your late teens.
One thing I can mention, when I read a post about how some of you now like gelatine based sweets without feeling guilt, it made me laugh because the closest I could relate to that is that I now have pain medication with gelatine based capsules and I don’t feel guilty like I would have before.
- The Defiant
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Late Introduction
Reply #1 - February 14, 2013, 10:17 PM

Welcome U.S and don't worry we're not all spring chickens on this forum.
- ibn Bilal
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Late Introduction
Reply #2 - February 14, 2013, 10:19 PM

Welcome. Good intro.
- billy
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Late Introduction
Reply #3 - February 14, 2013, 10:59 PM

Thanks for that intro US. Your perspective is unique and fascinating. First of all - people here vary in age. Secondly every narrative, story and perspective is precious, and three this forum exists so that people like you can use it as a safe space to express yourself. We're so happy to have you as part of the community.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

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God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- Lluvia
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Reply #4 - February 15, 2013, 12:47 AM

Welcome (even though you're not new)

Great intro. I like that you point the fact that the more we learn about Islam, the less it seems true.

If the abrahamic god judged himself according to his own moral standards, he'd go to hell.

He's jealous, full of pride, he created evil, he doesn't heal sick people while he could, he's attacking people who are weaker than him, he follows his own desires and he commits murders all the time.
- Jila
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Reply #5 - February 15, 2013, 05:10 AM

Quote
when I read a post about how some of you now like gelatine based sweets without feeling guilt, it made me laugh because the closest I could relate to that is that I now have pain medication with gelatine based capsules and I don’t feel guilty like I would have before.

Welcome
Quote from: ZooBear
- Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.
- Biaxident
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Reply #6 - February 15, 2013, 05:51 AM

Welcome.

Some of us are older than we feel. And some of us feel older than we are.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I remain.
- osmanthus
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Reply #7 - February 15, 2013, 06:29 AM

And some of us will feel anything up regardless of how old it is.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
- moi
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Reply #8 - February 15, 2013, 07:35 AM

My 60+ Oyster card should be in the post to me!

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
- cosmicdancer
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Reply #9 - February 15, 2013, 08:13 AM

Quote from: UberSlave on February 14, 2013, 10:10 PM
I’ve opened a fucking Pandora’s Box.

Yep.

If Muslims look at what Islam actually says rather than what they want it to say, most would end up losing their faith.

But that's the power of faith. You see the everything through magic glasses.

Oh and yes I feel sometimes that there are so many youngsters here too, but actually there quite a few older folk like us. (I'll be 54 in May - beat that!)
- UberSlave
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Reply #10 - February 15, 2013, 01:16 PM

Thanks everyone for your welcomes. I did notice that there are some old timers here so I’m sure I’ll be able to fit in.

@Hassan, no I can’t beat 54, although sometimes my body feels like a 60+ year old. You are right about faith being a powerful thing. It can cause people to justify the most horrendous deeds.

@Biaxident, mentally, I feel like a 20 something year old, but my creaking joints and back begs to differ.

@ Lluvia, it’s true that the more we learn about Islam, with an open and honest attitude, the more cracks will appear. The internet helps immensely though. In the 90’s, when my brother got into the religion more, there were absolutely no literature being presented to English speaking Muslims where the history, development, barbaric rules and malevolence of Islam could be seen. I’m not just talking about criticism of Islam. In Muslim books, the harsh Hadiths were covered up. The Prophets biography was presented to give an image of a wonderful peaceful person. Whereas, reading the original texts paint quite a different picture. I have to admit, I did not expect to find what I did when I started researching.
I wish the internet was around when I was in my teens. I wouldn’t have been bogged down by all that Islamic nonsense.
- David
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Reply #11 - February 15, 2013, 02:31 PM

Quote from: UberSlave on February 15, 2013, 01:16 PM
my creaking joints and back begs to differ.

I feel your pain, brother. I'm on a beautiful Caribbean island, and all I've been able to do for the last three weeks is lie on the floor with my legs up the fridge.

If there is a God, please send me a new spine. By FedEx if poss.

Good intro, by the way.
- tabularasa
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Reply #12 - February 15, 2013, 02:40 PM

Quote
Oh and yes I feel sometimes that there are so many youngsters here too, but actually there quite a few older folk like us. (I'll be 54 in May - beat that!)

Is there some kind of age demographic chart or poll that CEMB has taken recently? I am dying to find out everyones real age. But then again, you have to take it with a grain of salt cuz this is online...bet you there are people here pretending to be different ages, genders, what not.

I am 38 btw. i'm trying to catch up to you Hassan!

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- IMadeOfClay
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Reply #13 - February 25, 2013, 10:50 PM

"I kept thinking that I don’t belong or I shouldn’t get too involved with spreading my doubts."

There are lots of people here who feel like you do. You should write a detailed story about yourself on the forum. I did and I felt much better actually.

"Never felt I belonged to any culture fully, Desi culture was foreign to me"

Totally the same for me.

"Throughout the years, I kept feeling that more and more stuff kept being asked of you. You have to do more, it’s not enough, and you need to do this and that and then the other."

I have a similar problem. I know if I ever returned home there would be a mountain of pressure for me to get married. I don't want to be married to a muslim girl (actually I don't want to be married - I don't see why people can't just be partners if they prefer it that way). I would be expected to pray/read jumma/fast etc. I would be expected to waste thousands of pounds for my Umrah/Hajj (and maybe pay for other people's as well). I would have to sit and listen to everyone constantly praising Allah every other sentence (that would drive me mad). And many other 'responsibilities'.
So yes. Family put incredible pressure on people like us. Some people think that family are being selfless when they pressure you with these things. I think with my family there is some truth in that (my mother once said to me that I should get married and have children quickely otherwise I'll be an old man by the time my kids are 20 and I won't have the strength to look after them) but I also definately think there is a lot of selfishness (I've lost track of the number of times my old man has said how embarassing this/that will be for the family if I don't do this/that).

"...my brother got there first... now he is always talking about the hereafter, end of the world stuff and how dua’s really do help, especially with keeping away evil and magic."

Sounds like my younger brother. 100% brainwashed. I hardly talk to him now (not because we fell out or anything but I've just slowly become more and more distanced from him over time).

"A few years ago I tried to learn more about Islam myself, as I’m getting on a bit now and thought I should start getting more devout like my brother. I’ve opened a fucking Pandora’s Box."

I think that's true for lots of us here!

"I’m now thinking, what a waste my life has been."

My main thought is that I was born into the wrong family/community. I wish so much I was born into a western atheist family. It sounds horrible since most of my family are not bad people but they are so different from me it's like the difference between night and day. I don't fit in with them at all.

"One good thing is that I never got married because I could not go along with the arranged marriage thing, so I don’t have to worry about any kids being burdened with this crap."

I'm not married either. I have a great personal grudge with the idea of arranged marriages. I've seen first hand what a bad idea it is. My mother got stuck with a guy like my father. Arranged marriages are just so stupid. How the fuck can you marry someone you don't even fucking know? Because Islam (and other outdated cultures) don't allow girls to have a social life the girls can't possibly find a man so arranged marriages became the solution to the problem they created in the first place. Well fuck that.
I've thought for a long time that if I had kids do I really want them exposed to muslims (even if it's my own family)?

"I hope I can contribute to the site more in the coming future, even though it feels like most of you here are in your late teens."

I'm 30

Anyway I hope my reply helps you feel at ease a little.

And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence - Bertrand Russell
- UberSlave
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Reply #14 - February 28, 2013, 07:07 PM

Thank IMadeOfClay, reading your replies does help.

Quote from: IMadeOfClay
Sounds like my younger brother. 100% brainwashed. I hardly talk to him now (not because we fell out or anything but I've just slowly become more and more distanced from him over time).

This is what I hate about what's happening in recent times. I used to get on with my brother extremely well, but now he just seems to be changing little by little. All he has time for is his prayers and just constantly talking about religious stuff. And I think it's changing him as a person. I don't mention all the stuff that I have found out about Islam, because it just leads to raised voices and him accusing me of visiting wrong sites. He still has a rosy picture of Islam similar to what I had before I found out about all the stuff no one ever tells you. When I mention all the violence in Islam he used to say it's all lies, but now he almost justifies it to himself, i.e. the prophet and his followers did nothing wrong when they violently subjugated people and forced them to accept Islam, they were saved from hell because of it.

Quote from: IMadeOfClay
My main thought is that I was born into the wrong family/community. I wish so much I was born into a western atheist family. It sounds horrible since most of my family are not bad people but they are so different from me it's like the difference between night and day. I don't fit in with them at all.

Even as a youngster I knew how stunted my family's development was. We were in a schizophrenic existence having to pander to desi culture and also trying to exist in a western environment, ultimately succeeding in neither. I can see now how religion made this struggle difficult to resolve. If integrating into western culture was not such a taboo, I think it would have been more natural for me to exist that way. And in so doing, life would have been better than what it is now. But it's all too late to be speculating now.
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