Why Oppose Shariah Councils?

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- TheLeader
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Why Oppose Shariah Councils?
OP - May 03, 2013, 09:07 AM

I don't see why CEMB would like to see Shariah Councils banned. It is an arbitration tribunal that is used by consenting adults. I think that Shariah civil law is sexist towards women, but those women are choosing to use them. Could someone explain to me why they need to be banned?
- billy
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Reply #1 - May 03, 2013, 09:31 AM

Read these for starters.

http://www.onelawforall.org.uk/new-report-sharia-law-in-britain-a-threat-to-one-law-for-all-and-equal-rights/

http://www.secularism.org.uk/blog/2012/03/sharia-law-and-middle-class-feminism

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- TheLeader
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Reply #2 - May 03, 2013, 10:22 AM

Thanks for the response.

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There is a general assumption that those who attend Sharia courts do so voluntarily and that unfair decisions can be challenged in a British court. Many of the principles of Sharia law are contrary to British law and public policy, and would in theory therefore be unlikely to be upheld in a British court. In reality, however, women are often pressured by their families into going to these courts and adhering to unfair decisions, and may lack knowledge of English and their rights under British law. Moreover, refusal to settle a dispute in a Sharia court can give rise to threats and intimidation, or at best being ostracised.
http://www.onelawforall.org.uk/new-report-sharia-law-in-britain-a-threat-to-one-law-for-all-and-equal-rights/

The fact that certain sections of the public are ignorant of the power of arbitration tribunals isn't a justification for banning them. I'm sure the same ignorance would apply to non-religious tribunals. The pressure from family members to attend them and the threats are also independent of the arbitration tribunals and if they are not, then that is matter which is isolated to those arbitration tribunals participating in it. It hardly justifies a blanket ban.

Quote
where her children are not taken from her at a pre-set age
http://www.secularism.org.uk/blog/2012/03/sharia-law-and-middle-class-feminism

The above is a quote from the final paragraph. However, Shariah councils have no legal rights to rule on issues such as child custody. So, I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion on Shariah councils in the UK. She does make some important points about the hypocrisy of some feminists towards the rights of women in other cultures though.

However, the Arbitration and Mediation Services (Equalities) Bill that I have read about, whilst typing this up, seems to be a far more reasonable attempt to resolve the issues surrounding the tribunals.
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Reply #3 - May 03, 2013, 10:56 AM

Shariah councils may have no enforcable legal rights in the British legal system, to be sure, but the ultimate source of their power is all parties' belief in a God's sure punishment (and the trust placed in the arbitrators to know what God would prefer). Put charitably, this suggests at the least a powerful argument for selectively ignoring any protections given by man-made laws, where they disagree with Islamic justice; put less charitably, it places the plainly incompetent in authority over vulnerable people.

Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
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Why Oppose Shariah Councils?
Reply #4 - May 03, 2013, 10:59 AM

Quote
Why Oppose Shariah Councils?

Because it is a sectarian legal system operating parallel to the secular law of the land, indisputably discriminatory in nature, unregulated and unpoliced, operated by the unqualified, directly breaching fundamental values of the nation and facilitating all kinds of injustices.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Reply #5 - May 03, 2013, 12:41 PM

Why Oppose Shariah Councils?
You really have to ask?
- billy
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Reply #6 - May 03, 2013, 01:00 PM

The entrenchment of sharia councils is a structural entrenchment of misogynistic practise and religious shame / coercion institutionalisation.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- TheDashingRabbit
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Why Oppose Shariah Councils?
Reply #7 - May 03, 2013, 01:53 PM

@TheLeader.

You do support secularism right ?

One of the main points of secularism is that every citizen in the country has to abide by a set of rules set by the state and NOT laws set by religion.

You cannot be a supporter of secularism and not oppose religious courts that discriminate and oppress.

In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
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Reply #8 - May 03, 2013, 03:18 PM

In a truly libertarian world, I would agree. Being somewhat of a libertarian romantic, I originally held a similar view as yours with regards to these things. It's a voluntary arrangement. It's not something I would do, but if people wish to use that kind of arbitration, let them.

But we just don't live in such a libertarian world. The government forces us with all kinds of laws and ways of life. Everything from telling us we can't smoke a plant, to forcing us to pay for expensive healthcare.

My general conclusion today is the welfare state and freedom of choice can never mesh. The welfare state isolates people from their choices, thus removing one of the key elements of a free society. That is to say, good ideas and products and services eventually rise above poorer ones. When the welfare state isolates people from such choices, this doesn't work. Whether that choice is following ancient practices, being a single mother, doing drugs, not choosing a good career, choosing to eat transfats, take a car to work...

Let me emphasize, I'm not against the welfare state. I'm merely saying it is not compatible with the kind of libertarian thinking you just stated. If something is consensual, people should be allowed to do it. To make the welfare state work, you must control people's behavior.
Part of the modern welfare state is equality of men and women. Part of the welfare state assumes people are not fit to make various kinds of decisions for themselves and the government must make it for them.

It is with this understanding that I reject shariah councils.
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Why Oppose Shariah Councils?
Reply #9 - May 03, 2013, 03:23 PM

Well said.
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