Is the Quran Allah?

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Is the Quran Allah?
OP - July 05, 2013, 03:13 PM

http://vridar.wordpress.com/2013/03/30/islams-origins-the-historical-problem-notes-on-the-reading-tom-hollands-in-the-shadow-of-the-sword/

Quote
To the Muslim people, this “recitation” [qur'an] was a prize beyond compare. Not a word of it, not a letter, but it was touched with the fire of God. Undimmed, undimmable, the Qur’an offered to all those who dwelt on earth something infinitely precious: nothing less than a glimpse of the radiance of heaven.

But here’s TH’s significant point:

A prize such as this, it seemed to many, could only ever have existed uncreated, beyond the dimensions of time and space: for to imagine that God might somehow be distinct from His words was, of course, to commit the mortal offence of shirk.

From a review of Tom Holland's Shadow of the Sword

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Is the Quran Allah?
Reply #1 - July 06, 2013, 06:02 AM

I remember from when I was religious that this was basically ahmad bin hanbal's struggle. He believed so, and was persecuted by the ruling authority for it. I also remember totally not understanding the issue and disregarding it entirely for fear of committing blasphemy
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Is the Quran Allah?
Reply #2 - July 06, 2013, 06:52 AM

I do not understand. I don't think any muslim would assert that the qu'ran was uncreated.
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Reply #3 - July 06, 2013, 01:37 PM

Here was the argument:

http://salafstories.wordpress.com/category/ahmad-ibn-hanbal/
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Reply #4 - July 06, 2013, 04:34 PM

Quote
The Quraan is my speech , it is not created “.

How were words and speech understood before neurology?

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Is the Quran Allah?
Reply #5 - July 06, 2013, 06:33 PM

The qu'ran is emergent - it descends from allah's speech which is intrinsically uncreated. Speech is an attribute of allah's essence.

This is the default ashari position.
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