Muhammad's Failed Prophecy

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- TheDashingRabbit
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OP - February 02, 2014, 06:11 AM

So in this hadith Muhammad says that no human can know when it will rain and no human can know what is the womb.

With the advances of science we can make predictions of the weather based on meteorology and thanks to embryology we actually know alot about what goes on in the womb during pregnancy, some of which is actually evidence for the fact that we humans are the product of natural selection and were not designed.

I'm curious as to what muslims can possible say to defend this hadith.

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Reply #1 - February 02, 2014, 07:38 AM

Predictions are not 100% accurate, and we only know a lot about what goes on in the womb, not everything. It is for Allah to know everything about these and with 100% certainty.

Of course, if that's what it actually means, it's so much less impressive a claim for the all-knowing God to make.
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Reply #2 - February 02, 2014, 07:41 AM

Weather predictions are never 100% accurate, and a woman once told me that determining the sex of the featus cannot be done before the soul enters the body (120 days). Never bothered to check if that is true. Anyway, doctors have said boy but it was agirl and vice versa, so that also is is never 100% reliable apparently.

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Reply #3 - February 02, 2014, 08:22 AM

I think what she should be saying is when sperm enters the body instead of soul .
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Reply #4 - February 02, 2014, 08:28 AM

In regards to the womb part I've asked that before and the answer was not the physical is unknown, but the character of that child and what he will turn out like.

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Reply #5 - February 02, 2014, 08:55 AM

Yep, but they change that all the time. This woman, who had studied Islam for many years, argued that the hadith had to do with the sex of the child. Doctors cannot, according to her, determine the sex before the soul has entered the body (which is after 120 days if my memory serves me right). Sometimes they say it has to do with character, and I'm pretty sure there are other explanations. It's just something that changes with time in order to not make the "prophecy" null and void.

For example, what will they do now that 3D ultra sound or whatever it's called is used, and we can see detailed features of the child in the womb (which means, the sex can be determined much earlier than before). What about the future, there are a lot of studies being done in behavioral genetics. Perhaps in the future, we will be able to determine the genome when the child is still in the womb. What about the fact that we have the technology to give parents the option to customize their child through IVF (they can choose certain genes that determine hair and eye color etc.). There is no limit to what science can achieve in the next 10, 20, 50 or 100 years.

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Reply #6 - February 02, 2014, 10:59 AM

Exactly the interpretation is adaptable, and if it can be refuted, then it is no longer considered literal and they have to do some backward turn around it to explain it, all about making excuses,

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Reply #7 - February 02, 2014, 12:52 PM

You can't possibly hope to refute those Hadiths. Some religious people are so acrobatic in their apologia, it almost an Olympic game in its own right.

But then again, Karl Popper had a point when he said that an argument that explains everything, in reality explains nothing. It is immune to evidence, because even evidence against the proposition can be used as evidence for it. Is the creation account in the Genesis contradicted by evolution? Then God must be more ingenious then we thought, evolving us with such complexity! When Mother Theresa's private letters surfaced after her death, basically declaring her lack of faith in God and in religion, the Catholic church responded that this was in of itself proof of her faith, because religious suffering was a sign of nobility since the Calvary. What?

Post these failed prophecies on the Ummah forum and just watch the stunning acrobatics performed by Muslims.

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Reply #8 - February 02, 2014, 01:14 PM

List of links that some semi-educated Muslim fools consider The alleged statements of Prophet of Islam as Prophecies ..

Quote
Prophecies Made by The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

The Prophecies of Muhammad

Prophecies by Muhammad (sallalahu alaihi wa sallam)

MIND BLOWING PROPHECIES ABOUT PROPHET MUHAMMAD’S (saw)

prophecy of our prophet, peace be upon him, Muhammad ibn Abdullah.

FULFILLED PROPHECIES OF THE HOLY QURAN

The Prophecies of Muhammad by Moustafa Zaye A book

these fools repeat and repeat same things in zillion web sites..It is nothing but Islamic Spamming..

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Reply #9 - February 02, 2014, 02:12 PM

Quote from: Cornflower on February 02, 2014, 07:41 AM
Weather predictions are never 100% accurate

If what Muhammad meant was that man can never predict the weather a 100% then he should have said no man will ever be able to tell if it is going to rain FOR CERTAIN. Same thing with the womb.

In order for their apologia to work they have to admit that Muhammad should have been more clear than he was in this hadith.

He compares us knowing whether it will rain to if we know where we are going to die. And since it is almost impossible for any of us to know our location of death with any degree of certainty and we can know with a specific degree of certainty (e.x. 70%) when it will rain Muhammad is guilty of making a false comparison.

And third of all if this mistake was part of another holy book they would still think it's wrong. You can apply these apologetics to literally all religions even to the stories of Zeus and Poseidon.

This is what we should do. We should take this hadith and replace the characters and say that it is in the Book of Mormon. Once we get the muslim to admit how silly the story is, we tell them it is actually a sahih hadith.

I'd like the see an apologist wiggle himself out of that one.

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Reply #10 - February 02, 2014, 02:17 PM

Quote from: Cornflower on February 02, 2014, 08:55 AM
Yep, but they change that all the time. This woman, who had studied Islam for many years, argued that the hadith had to do with the sex of the child. Doctors cannot, according to her, determine the sex before the soul has entered the body (which is after 120 days if my memory serves me right).

That is even more of a disaster. All you have to do is mention X and Y chromosomes and the debate is finished. Even the best apologist's acrobatics stunts won't work with that.

In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
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