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 Topic: Emotional/Ethical reasons for leaving islam

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  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Emotional/Ethical reasons for leaving islam
     OP - March 31, 2014, 03:40 PM
    Unfortunately I have seen in most former muslims testimonies these non-rational, non-sequitor excuses for jettisoning islam and a bit of an intellectual embarrassment. Islam being a chauvinistic religion catered for women is irrelevant to the claim whether a sentient being called allah exists and ambushed random desert nomads. The cruel and non-emphatic idea of facing an eternal holocaust in hell for non-belief in islam says nothing about their being no evidence for the existence of a being called allah, it only means the fictional character in the book is a psychopathic asshole.

    Rather the focus should be on critical thinking rather then these highly subjective melodramatic visceral and ethical points. The reason one should leave islam is cos there's no reason to convince anyone that it's objectively true. Objective claims require objective evidence and islam simply doesn't have any. That should be enough for any educated person who has developed cognitive faculties to leave their islamic upbringing/belief. The emotional arguments are the logical fallacy of an appeal to emotion rather then logically point out how critical thinking automatically leads you to realise islam is not true.

    Emotional/ethical arguments for leaving islam have the same level of gaucherie as people who join a religion becos it's give them sentimental comfort or warm fuzzy feelings. Joining a religion because it makes you feel good to believe it's true is not an argument to whether it's true, so an argument that you find a deity of a religion being a misogynistic asshole emotionally distressing is irrelevant to explaining how that deity almost certainly doesn't exist.
  • Emotional/Ethical reasons for leaving islam
     Reply #1 - March 31, 2014, 03:52 PM
    Quote from: serpentofeden on March 31, 2014, 03:40 PM
    Islam being a chauvinistic religion catered for women is irrelevant to the claim whether a sentient being called allah exists and ambushed random desert nomads.

    But it is very relevant as a reason for why someone would leave Islam.

    You seem to be mistaking the myriad reasons people leave Islam for philosophical arguments against theism.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Emotional/Ethical reasons for leaving islam
     Reply #2 - March 31, 2014, 05:22 PM
    Religion is based on appeals to emotion to begin with. If there was an objective proof of one religion being true you would see a radical shift in the amount of followers. If it was proved in philosophy you would see a majority within the field. If it was withing a field of science you would see a majority. If it was proved in mathematics you would see a majority. While arguments for join and leaving a religion are emotion based. A better focus would why people join for illogical reasons rather than why do they leave.
  • Emotional/Ethical reasons for leaving islam
     Reply #3 - April 01, 2014, 01:38 PM
    Why don't ethical and emotional arguments matter? Is it a folly to argue stoning on ethical grounds? I started questioning Islam on ethical grounds and then moved on to find answers, you need a start somewhere and i frankly think any spark of doubt could set off a chain-reaction and at the end of the day you can not separate emotions and humans. You say people on here left Islam for all the wrong reasons to being with, how intellectually inferior of you lot. But all being said you are wrong in my opinion and the post makes you sound like a prick. Sorry had to be said.
  • Emotional/Ethical reasons for leaving islam
     Reply #4 - April 01, 2014, 02:46 PM
    My discomfort with Islam is what made me start questioning whether it was from a merciful god or not it but it's science and scepticism that pushed me into atheism.

     
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Emotional/Ethical reasons for leaving islam
     Reply #5 - April 01, 2014, 03:40 PM
    What kind of discomfort?
    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Emotional/Ethical reasons for leaving islam
     Reply #6 - April 01, 2014, 05:39 PM
    Quote from: infinite_del on April 01, 2014, 01:38 PM
    Why don't ethical and emotional arguments matter?

    Yeah. I mean, I can kinda understand the emotion part since serpentofeden is, apparently, under the mistaken impression that all emotionally-charged expression and personal testimony is an appeal to emotion fallacy. But why ethics too? Surely the ethics and moral ramifications of an idea or worldview is open to rational scrutiny, and that it can be legitimately rejected if found lacking on those grounds. I don't understand what the problem is.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Emotional/Ethical reasons for leaving islam
     Reply #7 - April 01, 2014, 06:08 PM
    It's like saying a supreme all creating god can be a evil psychopath demanding people to believe in obvious lies and fantasies, and at the same time imposing moral and ethical codes detrimental and catastrophic to human society and well being. Yeah, "emotional" and "ethical" reasons are irrelevant Roll Eyes
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Emotional/Ethical reasons for leaving islam
     Reply #8 - April 01, 2014, 06:24 PM
    @ishina

    What do the following ethical statements say about the actual existence of either?
    "Hitler is a wicked man"
    "Voldermort is a wicked man"

    Neither is making a statement about the existence of either individual, same as whether you say "allah/mohammed are wicked". It's not making a logical arguements as to why there is no good reason that the supernatural claims of islam are true. It's say absolutely nowt about there being zero sensory data that a entity called allah exists or has ever exists.

    You can believe islam is not true find listening to the azaan emotionally resonating. You can believe islam is not true as still regard the ethics on the whole to be good and to be followed, even to the extent that it should be a guideline for the law/politics of a country. Same way as you have some jews who don't think judaism is true that are zionists, you have people who don't believe islam is true who condone the islamic way of life. The question of whether islam supernatural claims are true should be answered in a complete different way to "is islam pernicious" ?

    The biggest flaw in the line of arguementing is that islamic apologists can point out how they are logical fallacies
    and merely "emotional rants" and be a distraction from getting to the critical arguements about the non-existence of allah.
  • Emotional/Ethical reasons for leaving islam
     Reply #9 - April 01, 2014, 06:26 PM
    Quote from: serpentofeden on March 31, 2014, 03:40 PM
    Unfortunately I have seen in most former muslims testimonies these non-rational, non-sequitor excuses for jettisoning islam and a bit of an intellectual embarrassment.   ....

    Hmmmm.,      what is this April fool day??

    hello serpent..  when you accuse former Muslims with such harsh words as they are irrational,  intellectual embarrassment.,  It would be nice to give links of  those ex-Muslim folks who were irrational  and intellectually inferior in writing their testimonies on leaving Islam.

    Or would you consider,  All Ex-Muslims   gave   irrational and intellectually inferior statement on why they left Islam??
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Emotional/Ethical reasons for leaving islam
     Reply #10 - April 01, 2014, 06:38 PM
    @serpentofeden

    There's a difference there. Hitler was a real person irregardless of his actions because there are real proof for his existance, and the more relevant question would be in regards to the ideology he stood for and if it's "good". As to allah and Islam, there are no real or reasonable evidence for god's existance in general. Personally, I believe there are enough scientific, historical, anthropological evidence that points to the fact that idea of "god", or what we humans percieve to be "god", is nothing more than a man made idea.

    When looking at Islam or any other ideology, you have to investigate what kind of ramifications Islamic morality and ethics have on society. This is not "irrelevant" because the (man made, according to me) general idea is that "god" is good and that by following his way will lead to prosperity.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Emotional/Ethical reasons for leaving islam
     Reply #11 - April 01, 2014, 06:42 PM
    @Yeezeevee

    I'm not about pointing out individuals. Rather about being self critical and being sceptical of ourselves and not just islamic apologists arguments, otherwise we will just imitate what many theists do with their dogmatic group think mentality and toeing the official party line.

    With the emotional/ethical approach it's easy to dismiss a person who has left religion as just immature histrionics and that way you get to evade the actual arguments for their not being a supernatural semetic magician called allah. I myself have seen many theists myself just laugh at non believers for being emotional wrecks and the crux of the critical arguments is never reached..

    No not all liberated from islam give emotional arguments which I was I said "most"  Smiley
  • Emotional/Ethical reasons for leaving islam
     Reply #12 - April 01, 2014, 06:57 PM
    Quote from: serpentofeden on April 01, 2014, 06:24 PM
    @ishina

    What do the following ethical statements say about the actual existence of either?
    "Hitler is a wicked man"
    "Voldermort is a wicked man"

    Neither is making a statement about the existence of either individual, same as whether you say "allah/mohammed are wicked". It's not making a logical arguements as to why there is no good reason that the supernatural claims of islam are true. It's say absolutely nowt about there being zero sensory data that a entity called allah exists or has ever exists.

    So what? That doesn't mean either statement is invalid. Why are you assuming a character assessment must also meet the criteria of an ontological argument? Your complaint doesn't make any sense.

    A character assessment is an answer to a different question entirely. You're trying to press it into the service of something other than its intended function. No wonder it comes up short.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Emotional/Ethical reasons for leaving islam
     Reply #13 - April 01, 2014, 07:03 PM
    You know OP even if Allah did exist I wouldn't worship Him because he hates my sex (the women), non-Muslims and homosexuals. Such God doesn't deserve worship. IMHO it's reason enough to leave Islam. Of course, you will find lots of arguments against the logical fallacies of Islam here and other sites which proves that it is a false religion. And like Ishina said immoralities are just a start. I do get your point which is quite good for arguing against the Muslims, but immoralities shouldn't be dismissed. Allah claims Himself to be merciful and compassionate. So what problems does he have with good homosexuals? Logical fallacy isn't it?
  • Emotional/Ethical reasons for leaving islam
     Reply #14 - April 01, 2014, 07:09 PM
    Quote from: serpentofeden on April 01, 2014, 06:42 PM
    I'm not about pointing out individuals.

    Yeah. You're more about passive-aggressively disparaging the often deeply personal testimonies of people's journey out of Islam, under the guise of some kind of altruistic concern for diplomatic image.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Emotional/Ethical reasons for leaving islam
     Reply #15 - April 02, 2014, 12:45 PM
    Muslims giving non-believers a hard time for being blinded by emotions Cheesy.
  • Emotional/Ethical reasons for leaving islam
     Reply #16 - April 02, 2014, 01:37 PM
    its those very emotions that made me hold on to religion even when I knew I wasn't going to ever be able to believe again
    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Emotional/Ethical reasons for leaving islam
     Reply #17 - April 03, 2014, 01:51 PM
    Allah loves to go on about how merciful he is and how his mercy has no bounds. IIRC, there's an ayah or Hadith that claims that the love Allah has for his creation (or was it just Muslims?) is greater than the love a mother has for her child. Not just that, but the Quran and Hadith also claim that he's just and fair. I don't know of any mothers who'd burn their children to death for misbehaving (and that's still nowhere near as harsh as eternal torture) and the fact that there's a lot of cruelty and injustice enshrined in Islam contradict the whole "Allah is all merciful" schtick. It's also often being uncomfortable with unethical or downright evil Islamic beliefs/practices that leads one to questioning the religion and seeking out alternative viewpoints, which eventually leads to abandoning the faith when it fails to pass the smell test. 

    Also, the real world impact of a belief system that puffs itself up as much as Islam does needs to be considered. If it causes more than its fair share of misery, suffering and death, it can't be all that great now can it? 
  • Emotional/Ethical reasons for leaving islam
     Reply #18 - April 03, 2014, 01:54 PM
    ^

    There is a hadith that says allah have the love of 70 mothers.

    First of all why is it 70 specifically and does that mean that allah's love is limited?   

    He has limitless mercy but limited love Huh?
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
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