Mohammad and a cross on an Arab-Byzantine coin AH 60-72

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- canaaniteshift
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Mohammad and a cross on an Arab-Byzantine coin AH 60-72
OP - December 12, 2014, 07:10 PM

On November,24th or 25th, 2014 among many other coins a special coin will be auctioned by the Geneva auction house Numismatica Genevensis SA, which is said to be minted in the years 679-691 and is of great historical interest.

The coin can be seen at the following website
http://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=1609&category=33779&lot=1442255

It shows on the front side a crowned ruler with cross insignia, on the reverse side an M (to indicate the currency value of the coin), which also carries a cross, below is unmistakably to be read "m-h-m-d" in Arabic script, ie Arabic "muhammad" (or Aramaic "mahmad"). The scripture on the front is probably not to be read as "[Banu] Nu'man", as the auctioneer reads, but as a "bi-'amman", "in Amman", indicating the city where the coin was minted.
This combination of a Christian prince with the title "muhammad", "highly praised" again makes clear that the conventional narrative of the foundation of Islam by some Muhammad in Mecca is dubious. This story rather originates from later (Abbaside?) times.
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Mohammad and a cross on an Arab-Byzantine coin AH 60-72
Reply #1 - December 12, 2014, 09:15 PM

Quote
On coins from this period, we do find the word "Muhammad" inscribed, but curiously the inscription comes under kingly figures bearing a cross, a symbol of Christianity that is totally antithetical to traditional Islam (pp. 43-4).

Bearing in mind that "Muhammad" can also mean "the chosen/praised one," the coins could well be conveying the idea that the ruler is praised or chosen in God's name (p. 45). Alternatively, they could be referring to Jesus -- at a time when the religion of the Arab conquerors was still a vague monotheism -- or a proto-Muhammad figure still very much unlike the man depicted in the traditional accounts of his life. Even the inscriptions on the Dome of the Rock -- completed in 691 CE and often thought to be the first elaborations on traditional Islamic theology -- could be referring to Jesus, explaining how he ("Muhammad") is a mere messenger and not divine as orthodox Christianity held (pp. 56-7).

http://www.meforum.org/3251/did-muhammad-exist

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Mohammad and a cross on an Arab-Byzantine coin AH 60-72
Reply #2 - December 12, 2014, 09:33 PM

Quote from: moi on December 12, 2014, 09:15 PM
http://www.meforum.org/3251/did-muhammad-exist

Robert Spencer?
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Mohammad and a cross on an Arab-Byzantine coin AH 60-72
Reply #3 - December 12, 2014, 09:47 PM

Bobby Spencer.
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Mohammad and a cross on an Arab-Byzantine coin AH 60-72
Reply #4 - December 12, 2014, 10:06 PM

Has anyone read his book?

I'm always dubious of people who believe in a religion writing about a different religion.
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Reply #5 - December 12, 2014, 10:08 PM

Sorry, I was googling for info about this - I understand there are nany coins with crosses and the term mohammed. I seem to have picked a "complex" site as an example!

I thought New English Review had discussed this.

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Mohammad and a cross on an Arab-Byzantine coin AH 60-72
Reply #6 - December 12, 2014, 10:16 PM

don't post any links of Robert Spencer's without self awareness of the issues he presents please. And the New English Review is not a site that is reputable either.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Mohammad and a cross on an Arab-Byzantine coin AH 60-72
Reply #7 - December 12, 2014, 11:35 PM

I was thinking of

http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/19589/sec_id/19589

Quote
A Conference On The Early History Of Islam And The Koran

by Ibn Warraq (May 2008)

I thought NER was quite a good source! What have I missed?

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Mohammad and a cross on an Arab-Byzantine coin AH 60-72
Reply #8 - December 12, 2014, 11:55 PM

they're EDL promoters and feature Geller types

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Mohammad and a cross on an Arab-Byzantine coin AH 60-72
Reply #9 - December 13, 2014, 01:36 AM

...

In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
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