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Theme Changer

 Topic: A MIRACLE THATS TROUBLING ME

 (Read 3426 times)
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  • A MIRACLE THATS TROUBLING ME
     OP - February 04, 2017, 04:15 PM

    hey guys I left Islam 2 months back!  Quran is a book full of nonsense but this so called numerical miracle is troubling me.. The Muslims claim that the sea land ratio is mentioned in the quran

    Can someone please debunk this for me? 

    Thanks in advance
  • A MIRACLE THATS TROUBLING ME
     Reply #1 - February 04, 2017, 10:13 PM

    You provided no numbers nor math so there is nothing to debunk. If you were not provided with numbers nor math whom ever your talked to is making an argument by assertion. An assertion can be dismissed.
  • A MIRACLE THATS TROUBLING ME
     Reply #2 - February 05, 2017, 01:59 AM

    Here is the calculation. 

    THE RATIO OF THE SEA TO THE LAND

    The ratio of the appearances of the words "sea" and “land" in the Qur’an is identical to the ratio between sea and land in modern science. The continents had not yet been discovered at the time the Qur’an was sent down, and it was impossible to determine the ratio between the land and sea. Even such a large continent as America was only discovered in the 15th century.

    The word "land" appears 13 times in the Qur’an, while “sea” appears 32 times. These numbers total 45. If we divide the number of references to land in the Qur’an, 13, by 45, the result is 28.8888888889%. When we divide the number of references to sea in the Quran, 32, by 45, the result is 71.1111111111%. these ratios are the exact ones that apply between water and dry land on Earth.

    The repetition of these words in the Qur’an may be an indication that the Earth is 71% covered in water and 29% in dry land. (Allah knows the truth.) It has only been possible to arrive at this ratio in the present day, thanks to satellite photos and computer calculations.

    Number of times the word “land” appears in the Qur’an = 13
    Number of times the word “sea” appears in the Qur’an = 32
    Proportion of dry land to sea covering the Earth = 13/45 = 29%
    Proportion of sea to dry land on Earth = 32/45 = 71%
  • A MIRACLE THATS TROUBLING ME
     Reply #3 - February 05, 2017, 03:45 AM

    1. The continents had indeed been discovered at the time the quran was sent down.

    2. It's interesting that you think it was impossible to determine the ratio between the land and sea when thousands of years before the quran, people were able to calculate the distance from the Earth to the sun.

    3. America was discovered half a millennia before the 15th century.

    4. The calculations are off. It's actually 29.2% (148,940,000 sq km) and 70.8% (361,132,000 sq km).

    5. Even if this were true (it isn't) it doesn't invalidate all the things the quran gets wrong.

    All you have here is the result of someone with too much time on their hands desperately trying to create "miracles" that try to show a fictional book to be more than it is. I can do that as well.

    Here's a list of prophesied assassinations that came true, as foretold in Moby Dick: http://users.cecs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html

    Here are scientific and mathematical miracles: http://skeptic-mind.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/holy-moby-dick.html

    Here are miracles in Edgar Allan Poe: http://users.cecs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/poe.html

    And mate, I have to say, being the first to realise something doesn't mean you have a link to the divine. No one calls Newton or Einstein a prophet. Why is that?

    You ever notice that if Mo was the first to discover something it's a miracle, but it's never a miracle if someone else does it? Funny that.


    And, just for laughs, here's William Shakespeare teaching us some modern day cosmology.

    I was reading:
    Embryology in the Quran: Much Ado About Nothing - A Refutation of Hamza Tzortzis' Scientific Linguistic Analysis of Chapter 23

    which I'm sure many of you might have read but I just love the part where the author beats the apologists at their own game (lexical gymnastics of Arabic to prove a miracle). Posting it for those who might have missed.

    It's pretty elegant this part:

    The Tempest Act 1, Scene 2


    “What seest thou else
    In the dark backward and abysm of time?”


    The following is a demonstration of what Hamza calls “lexical analysis” applied to the above lines from Shakespeare.  

    “The statement from Shakespeare, asks what one can see in the “dark” “backward” and “abysm” of time?  

    The word “dark” carries various meanings such as: absence of light, night, dark color, black, being hidden, invisible, absorbing more light than it reflects, ignorance, inmmoral (all definitions taken from Oxford English Dictionary).  

    The word “backward” has a myriad of meanings such as: to put or keep back, delay, retard. To send back, return, towards one’s back or the back of anything, to bend backward, fall backward, be pushed backward, to retire, towards a worse state, unwilling, slowness of conception or action (all definitions taken from Oxford English Dictionary).  

    The words “abysm” has several meanings including: great deep, bottomless chasm, infernal pit, hell, void space, a condition from which recovery is impossible, to sink in (all definitions taken from Oxford English Dictionary).  

    Scientific Interpretation:
    Upon a linguistic and scientific analysis of the Shakespearean words, the myriad of meanings of the terms in the statement corresponds to what is known today in modern astronomy. This statement is describing the existence and nature of black holes.

    The meanings of the word “dark” such as “absence of light”, “black”, “being hidden”, “invisible” “absorbing more light than it reflects” are describing the dim nature of black holes where the strength of the gravitational field would prevent even light from escaping. This characteristic causes black holes to be “hidden” from human view due to “the absence of light” i.e. the light from the black holes would not escape and reach the human eye. The term “backward” coupled with the term “dark” paints an image of either light or any other object “falling backwards” into the black hole. The term “abysm” refers to the “deep” or “bottomless” nature of black holes as well as the fact that black holes consist mostly of empty, “void space”. The term “backward” which carries the meaning of “slowness” coupled with the term “time” refers to the gravitational time dilation or the slowing down of time in the black holes. These phenomenons are described by the theoretical physicist Jim al-Khalili in the following manner;

    Page 40, “Let us consider what happens when an even bigger star, say twenty or thirty times the mass of the Sun, stops shining. Such a star will not be able to resist its own gravitational collapse. It will keep on collapsing until it has been squashed to such a density that even its own light cannot escape its gravitational pull. To someone watching from a distance the star will suddenly disappear from view. It has become a black hole”

    Page 66, “A black hole corresponds to the case when a very heavy, yet point sized, object causes the rubber (space) to be curved and stretched down into an infinitely deep cone-shaped hole. The event horizon here corresponds to a circle somewhere inside the rim of this bottomless pit beyond which there would be no escapes.”

    Page 70, “However, because of the way space and time are mixed up inside a black hole, you continue to fall at the same rate as before. It is just that your time will slow down. This is known as gravitational time dilation.”

    Page 84, “So the particles of light would not be fast enough to escape its gravitational pull. Such a star must therefore look black to the outside world. In fact, it would be invisible”

    Page 84, “Black holes, as we understand them today, comprise almost entirely of empty space! In fact they are literally holes in space, inside which the properties of space and time are completely altered.”  

    Jim Al-Khalili, (1999) Black holes, wormholes, and time machines. Institute of Physics Publishing. Philadelphia.


    William-o-akbar! Poetic ownage.


    See how easy it is?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • A MIRACLE THATS TROUBLING ME
     Reply #4 - February 05, 2017, 03:49 AM

    It's a miscount

    https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Land_to_water_ratio_miracle_in_the_Qur'an
  • A MIRACLE THATS TROUBLING ME
     Reply #5 - February 05, 2017, 07:24 AM

    Thank you guys... I feel relieved now  Afro Afro
  • A MIRACLE THATS TROUBLING ME
     Reply #6 - February 05, 2017, 07:55 AM

    You may also be interested in these two posts I made, the first on quranic errors, the second on the historical evidence of Moses, the prophet most mentioned in the quran.

    So I thought I'd expand on the above, because I honestly meant these to be arguments.

    1) The quran:

    The quran claims itself to be the perfect uncorrupted word of god. That's it's biggest flaw. It invites challenge in a way other holy texts don't, and is really to arrogant for it's own good. The level is enough that it doesn't have the flexibility needed to stand the test of time. The fact that it doesn't have this flexibility, and that it needs it in the first place, is an argument against it in my opinion.

    2) Sanity

    There's only so much a human being can reasonably be held accountable for when it comes to spiritual matters. There's a verse in the quran which says allah has not given us two hearts. I personally view this as metaphorical, not literal. We view and believe certain things a certain way. I cannot at the same time believe in the quran while seeing flaws in it.

    3) Reality

    The quran, like all the other holy texts, claims to be the word of god. The way to verify this is testing it, see if it stacks up. Quite frankly it doesn't. Dust devils and jinns, spontaneous human creation, great flood, there's a lot to choose from, but I'll pick a few.

    The story of the arc and the great flood. This would have happened around 4000 years ago. It's quite simply impossible for the number of races, ethnicities and the huge amount of genetic traits to come from one incestuous family in just 4000 years. It cannot happen. Something else that puts a hole in the story is the amount of people who were thriving at this point. God flooded the entire world. Except for the Chinese who were developing at an incredible rate and remained unaffected from a global flood that wiped out every human on the planet. The Japanese were also unaffected. And the Africans. And the Europeans. And the Native Americans. And the Aztecs. And the South Americans. And most of the middle east.  The flood never happened. It's not real.

    The quran teaches that humans were created from clay in a specific creation. If you're to count on the hadiths, then it's just even more ludicrous. We know the first human was not a 90 foot tall clay giant. Even if you don't take the hadiths into account, it also doesn't account for evolution, the proof of which is overwhelming. Nor does it account for the number of people today who have Neanderthal DNA in them from before the Neanderthals went extinct. Everything I know to be proven fact contradicts the claims of the quran. The only logical conclusion I can come to is that it was a story told by ancient societies because they didn't have any answers. Adam never existed. It's not real.

    The sun orbits the Earth...yeah, we've known that's bullshit for a few centuries now.

    It says in the quran that in the embryo/foetus the bones are the first thing to form. "So we made the clot a morsel, so we made the morsel bones, so we clothed the bones (with) meat". This is wrong. The skeleton is actually among the last to be formed. You'd think the all knowing creator of everything would realise this. It's wrong.

    The stars are missiles to be hurled at jinns. Or they hunt demons. I haven't read the quran in a while so I can't remember the exact quote, but you can look it up to see exactly what it says. This is also wrong. The stars are just stars, they do the exact same thing as the star we orbit, the sun.

    Women are defective in intelligence. Coming from a culture where gender mixing is the norm and close relationships aren't looked down upon, I can tell you this isn't true from my own experience. And then there's current trends in school grades, sciences, IQ and employment performance, the fact there are women in MENSA (if you don't know MENSA is like a super genius club, only 2% of the human population globally have a high enough IQ to qualify for membership). Now we live in an age men and women have equal rights, women are on the same level and even starting to out preform men. So I'm going to say this is wrong.

    4) Nonsense

    Do you believe that allah puts a veil over our hearts? If the answer to this is yes, then my reply to that would be that I'm blameless. If the reason I don't see the truth of islam is because allah put a veil over my heart, then it stands to reason I'll be punished (by being sent to hell) for a crime I didn't commit. My reason for saying I'm being punished for a crime I didn't commit is that allah delibertly put a veil over my heart so I would never know him, therefore the fault is allah's, not mine.

    Do you believe nothing happens accept by allah's will? If so then it's the same as above. If nothing happens except by allah's will, then allah made sure I wouldn't believe in him. So again the fault lies with allah, not myself.

    Do you believe islam teaches there's no compulsion in religion? If so does that mean if you don't accept islam as true, then you go to hell? If so, this means that allah has told us something to be taken as truth, and he punishes us for taking him at his word instead of assuming he was lying.

    Do you believe in the virgin birth? If so, can you understand why I might think it's more likely that a teenage girl told a lie rather than a virgin magically conceiving a child, carrying it to term, birthing it, and the child while still an infant speaking?

    Can you also understand why it may be confusing that said infant would only speak once to a few people and refuse to speak again to others, which would cause all doubt in the divinity of allah to be wiped away?

    Here's a situation. Let's say there's something in your house you don't like. It offends you. Let's also say you have the power of a god. Would you A) throw away the thing you didn't like or give it to charity, or B) bring it to life, give it intelligence so it can understand what's happening, enable it to feel pain, and torture it forever and ever and ever? Which is more merciful?

    5) Common sense

    It becomes a common sense issue. Let's say that I'm wrong. Let's say all the things I'm of the opinion are true are wrong. It doesn't change the fact that I find the quran unbelievable. I can't have more knowledge than what's available to me. Let's take evolution. I find it believable. I'm convinced of it. The quran goes against it. I have no reason whatsoever, nothing at all compelling me to believe the quranic story over proven scientific fact.

    Or another, let's take the big bang. I'm convinced by what knowledge I have that before the universe, and after the universe, there was no Earth. This planet did not exist. It took a very long time for our star to be born and for our planet to form. This seems plausible to me. From what I know of physics and cosmology, I can accept this. I have no reason whatsoever to believe that the Earth existed from the start and was ripped apart from heaven.

    Or another. The quran and hadiths suggest a flat Earth. At one point it's spread out like a carpet, at another the Earth is like an ostrich egg (had to pick the bird that buries it's egg and flattens the soil), allah will roll up the Earth like parchment/paper, and on and on it goes. Everything I'm aware of tells me this is wrong. It becomes less and less believable to me. So with all this in mind, common sense tells me that the only truth that lies hidden in the quran is simply the truths of the cultural norms and mindset of that society and time. Historically and psychologically it's interesting, but that's all it is. No more, no less.

    And I have to admit, these aren't even my strongest arguments. I haven't thought about this endlessly, I haven't delved into the theology to throw things at you. The above is just what came to mind as I sit here filling the time on a lazy Sunday evening.


    There's no evidence at all, for any of it. Not for a historical Moses, not for the slaves, not for the plagues, not for the desert wanderings, nothing. I'm a little drunk right now but I'll try to give an idea.

    The first thing to mention is that there's no real evidence of jewish slaves in ancient Egypt, at least not in the scale the abrahamic religions would have us believe. At the time of the supposed uprising there were 600,000 families, which works out to about two million people. Two million people who lived under hardship and tyrannical rule. Let's not even mention that the ancient Egyptians treated slaves as a common practise in ways that are completely contradictory to this. Let's not even mention that they couldn't of built the pyramids because they were supposedly enslaved around three centuries AFTER the completion of the pyramids in 1750 B.C.

    First off, the Egyptians kept good records. It's how we know so much about them. If they lost two million of their slaves, the economy would have collapsed overnight. Never happened. The competing empires would have smelled blood in the water. Never happened. There's not a single footnote even among the Roman Empire that says "Hey, hear what happened in Egypt?" It would of been big news. No mention of it. Anywhere. Nothing.

    The desert they were lost in for 40 years? 120 miles across. They could of walked from one end to the other in a week. There are people who crossed the width of America, which is what, 2700 miles? 3000 miles? Took them a year. The better part of three thousand miles and you cross it in a year. 120? Two million people, used to the desert, are lost for four decades.

    You also have to wonder why they did it in the first place. Egypt is basically the Nile. Just 50 miles the other way a huge body of fresh water that no one knew was there. If god wanted them safe, wouldn't that make more sense? But no. Two million desert natives lost for 40 years in a desert they would of crossed in one week.

    While living there for all that time, they left nothing. No pottery. No hebrew writing. No camp remains. No food remains. No place of worship, no discarded or ripped piece of cloth, nothing.

    And that really sums it up, there's nothing. No records of losing a quarter of the entire population. No records of economic downturn. No evidence of families surviving in the desert. There wasn't even a labour shortage.

    You'd almost think it was made up.

    The entire story seems to be a plagiarism of Sargon of Akkad, a story that pre-dates Moses by a millennia. While he was clearly a brilliant military leader, it was the story he told of his youth and rise to power that exerted a powerful influence over the Sumerians he sought to conquer. Instead of representing himself as a man chosen by the gods to rule, he presented a much humbler image of himself as an orphan set adrift in life who was taken in by a kind gardener and granted the love of the goddess Inanna. His mother could not reveal her pregnancy or keep the child, and so she placed him in a basket which she then let go on the Euphrates River. She had sealed the basket with tar, and the water carried him safely to where he was later found by a man named Akki who was a gardener for Ur-Zababa, the king of the Sumerian city of Kish. In creating this legend, Sargon carefully distanced himself from the kings of the past (who claimed divine right) and aligned himself with the common people of the region rather than the ruling elite. Sound familiar?

    Just to give a clear idea, compare his birth to Mose' birth in the bible and quran..

    Exodus 2, 1-10

    Quote
    And there went a man of the house of Levi, and took to wife a daughter of Levi.

    And the woman conceived, and bare a son: and when she saw him that he was a goodly child, she hid him three months.

    And when she could not longer hide him, she took for him an ark of bulrushes, and daubed it with slime and with pitch, and put the child therein; and she laid it in the reeds by the river's brink.

    And his sister stood afar off, to wit what would be done to him.

    And the daughter of Pharaoh came down to wash herself at the river; and her maidens walked along by the river's side; and when she saw the ark among the reeds, she sent her maid to fetch it.

    And when she had opened it, she saw the child: and, behold, the babe wept. And she had compassion on him, and said, This is one of the Hebrews' children.

    Then said his sister to Pharaoh's daughter, Shall I go and call to thee a nurse of the Hebrew women, that she may nurse the child for thee?

    And Pharaoh's daughter said to her, Go. And the maid went and called the child's mother.

    And Pharaoh's daughter said unto her, Take this child away, and nurse it for me, and I will give thee thy wages. And the women took the child, and nursed it.

    And the child grew, and she brought him unto Pharaoh's daughter, and he became her son. And she called his name Moses: and she said, Because I drew him out of the water.


    Surat Al-Qaşaş 2-13

    Quote
    These are revelations of the Scripture that maketh plain.

    We narrate unto thee (somewhat) of the story of Moses and Pharaoh with truth, for folk who believe.

    Lo! Pharaoh exalted himself in the earth and made its people castes. A tribe among them he oppressed, killing their sons and sparing their women. Lo! he was of those who work corruption.

    And We desired to show favour unto those who were oppressed in the earth, and to make them examples and to make them the inheritors,

    And to establish them in the earth, and to show Pharaoh and Haman and their hosts that which they feared from them.

    And We inspired the mother of Moses, saying: Suckle him and, when thou fearest for him, then cast him into the river and fear not nor grieve. Lo! We shall bring him back unto thee and shall make him (one) of Our messengers.

    And the family of Pharaoh took him up, that he might become for them an enemy and a sorrow, Lo! Pharaoh and Haman and their hosts were ever sinning.

    And the wife of Pharaoh said: (He will be) a consolation for me and for thee. Kill him not. Peradventure he may be of use to us, or we may choose him for a son. And they perceived not.

    And the heart of the mother of Moses became void, and she would have betrayed him if We had not fortified her heart, that she might be of the believers.

    And she said unto his sister: Trace him. So she observed him from afar, and they perceived not.

    And We had before forbidden foster-mothers for him, so she said: Shall I show you a household who will rear him for you and take care of him?

    So We restored him to his mother that she might be comforted and not grieve, and that she might know that the promise of Allah is true. But most of them know not.


    Sargon -

    Quote
    Sargon, the mighty king, King of Agade, am I. My mother was a vestal, my father I knew not, while my father's brother dwelt in the mountains. In my city Azuripani, which is situated on the bank of the Euphrates, my mother, the vestal, bore me. In a hidden place she brought me forth. She laid me in a vessel made of reeds, closed my door with pitch, and dropped me down into the river, which did not drown me. The river carried me to Akki, the water carrier. Akki the water carrier lifted me up in the kindness of his heart, Akki the water carrier raised me as his own son, Akki the water carrier made of me his gardener. In my work as a gardener I was beloved by Ishtar, I became the king, and for forty-five years I held kingly sway.





    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • A MIRACLE THATS TROUBLING ME
     Reply #7 - February 05, 2017, 09:21 PM


    The word "land" appears 13 times in the Qur’an, while “sea” appears 32 times. These numbers total 45. If we divide the number of references to land in the Qur’an, 13, by 45, the result is 28.8888888889%.

    When we divide the number of references to sea in the Quran, 32, by 45, the result is 71.1111111111%. these ratios are the exact ones that apply between water and dry land on Earth.

    The repetition of these words in the Qur’an may be an indication that the Earth is 71% covered in water and 29% in dry land. (Allah knows the truth.) It has only been possible to arrive at this ratio in the present day, thanks to satellite photos and computer calculations.

    Number of times the word “land” appears in the Qur’an = 13
    Number of times the word “sea” appears in the Qur’an = 32
    Proportion of dry land to sea covering the Earth = 13/45 = 29%
    Proportion of sea to dry land on Earth = 32/45 = 71%


    Sea is a specific body of water type which are typically salt water. Sea is not the equivalent to water. Thus the percentages are irrelevant as the total water to land ratio include all liquid water not just sea water. Sea does not even apply to ocean which is the majority of the water on the planet thus the percentage are irrelevant. Beside this the percentages are wrong (Links 1 and 2). The ratio changes as well in the past (link 3) and at present (link 4). The ratio changes thus the miracle is arbitrary.

    http://www.livescience.com/29673-how-much-water-on-earth.html
    http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/8o.html
    http://phl.upr.edu/library/notes/analysisofthedistributionoflandandoceans
    http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/sealevel.html
  • A MIRACLE THATS TROUBLING ME
     Reply #8 - February 06, 2017, 12:11 AM

    Plus it's not just  بر that is used to mean land but the word ard  ارض also.

    I don't understand why people still take this numerical crap seriously.
  • A MIRACLE THATS TROUBLING ME
     Reply #9 - February 06, 2017, 03:09 AM

    2 more!!!

    The moon is mentioned 28 times in the quran.
    The moon takes 28 days to orbit.

    Male and female are mentioned 23 times each in the quran.
    23 chromosomes comes from the father and mother!!

    Can anyone debunk this for me? 

    Currently arguing with a Muslim guy and he put forward these numerical stuff
  • A MIRACLE THATS TROUBLING ME
     Reply #10 - February 06, 2017, 03:19 AM

    Are you counting this yourself?

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • A MIRACLE THATS TROUBLING ME
     Reply #11 - February 06, 2017, 03:47 AM

    2 more!!!

    The moon is mentioned 28 times in the quran.
    The moon takes 28 days to orbit.
     


    It takes 27.3 days from an earth reference point. When you round numbers it is to the closest thus 27 not 28. It takes the Moon 29.5 to reach the previous position by reference of the sun. This is a lunar month. The concept of a lunar month predates Islam by millennia.

    https://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/StarChild/questions/question32.html

    Quote
    Male and female are mentioned 23 times each in the quran.
    23 chromosomes comes from the father and mother!!


    Male is referenced 14 times. Female even more
    http://corpus.quran.com/search.jsp?q=male
    http://corpus.quran.com/search.jsp?q=female
  • A MIRACLE THATS TROUBLING ME
     Reply #12 - February 06, 2017, 05:08 AM

    Are you counting this yourself?

     No mate!!  I am currently arguing with a Muslim and he provided the information
  • A MIRACLE THATS TROUBLING ME
     Reply #13 - February 06, 2017, 05:38 AM

    They used to manipulate us with these false numbers and tbh with you..  Before the age of (Internet in every pocket) many people (including me)  believed the words of Islamic scholars and were amazed by them.
    But now,  anybody can do a corpus analysis of the Quran in few seconds to discover that everything was just a big load of bs
  • A MIRACLE THATS TROUBLING ME
     Reply #14 - February 06, 2017, 11:36 AM

    No mate!!  I am currently arguing with a Muslim and he provided the information


    Friendly bit of advice. These conversions typical go nowhere unless both sides is willing to entertain the idea that Islam could be wrong. If a dialogue includes two fundamentally conflicting axioms this is called an irrational dialogue. Examples of conflicting axioms. Islam is true vs Islam could be false. Christianity is true vs Islam is true. Islam is false vs Islam could be false. It depends on your goal of this discussion.

    The average internet apologist follows a predictable pattern using arguments heard over and over again. You can search most responses to these claims using keywords in the search function at the top right of the page.
  • A MIRACLE THATS TROUBLING ME
     Reply #15 - February 06, 2017, 03:31 PM

    The orbital period of the moon is 27 days, not 28, and a child inherits 50% DNA from the mother and father, so how do you explain that?

    I'm not even sure why you're asking this. Did you click the links I gave you? They clearly show how these numerical "miracles" work and shows them for the bollocks they are.

    Also, remember these?

    You ever notice that if Mo was the first to discover something it's a miracle, but it's never a miracle if someone else does it? Funny that.


    And mate, I have to say, being the first to realise something doesn't mean you have a link to the divine. No one calls Newton or Einstein a prophet. Why is that?


    Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the Earth and the tilt of the Earth's axis with remarkable accuracy. He also calculated the distance from the Earth to the Sun. How could he have known? Must of been a prophet. Boom. Now start worshipping Zeus.

    And what about the things the quran gets wrong? Why does it say that milk comes from cows' stomachs?

    Even if you could find true things in the quran, why does that mean Mo was a prophet? What about all the other people who were the first to discover things? Why not call Newton and Einstein prophets? And what about the things it gets wrong?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • A MIRACLE THATS TROUBLING ME
     Reply #16 - February 07, 2017, 01:34 AM

    No mate!!  I am currently arguing with a Muslim and he provided the information


    Why are you using someone else's data to disprove them? Doesn't that seem difficult to you? It's better to check his facts yourself.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
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