Expanding universe?!

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- Thedarkknight89
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Expanding universe?!
OP - March 24, 2017, 02:36 PM

And hasten to forgiveness from your Lord and a garden as wide as the heavens and earth, prepared for the righteous (3:133)

Race toward forgiveness from your Lord and a Garden whose width is like the width of the heavens and earth, prepared for those who believed in Allah and His messengers. That is the bounty of Allah which He gives to whom He wills, and Allah is the possessor of great bounty.(57:21)

So Allah says A garden whose width is like the width of the heavens and earth are prepared for those who believe.. So does this garden expand with the expansion of the universe (first Heaven)? Doesn't look like it..saying the width of some ongoing thing doesn't make sense to me... Moreover The word "expanding" in (51:47) if replaced with wordings like "vast extent or" vastness of space" would make more sense"
- Skeptic
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Expanding universe?!
Reply #1 - March 26, 2017, 04:23 AM

You need to contextualise this more, I am struggling to follow . Also the metric expension of space only makes sense when you are talking about space itself, not other objects that are bounded by some force. Atoms, or planets or humans or gardens don't expand, only space on large scale does which is unbounded.

Going by that understanding, the garden wouldn't expand .

Lost somewhere between immensity and eternity is our tiny planetary home. [carl sagan]
- thornsvald
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Expanding universe?!
Reply #2 - March 26, 2017, 07:28 AM

SCIENTIFIC MIRACLES QUR'AN CONTEXT TRANSLATION SCHOLARS

Quote from: ibn Bilal on June 13, 2014, 07:17 PM
Then you have the wine that doesn't make you drunk. Seriously, who's idea was that? It's called Juicy Juice where I come from, mofo, you ain't fooling me.
- Thedarkknight89
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Expanding universe?!
Reply #3 - March 27, 2017, 04:31 PM

Quote from: Skeptic on March 26, 2017, 04:23 AM
You need to contextualise this more, I am struggling to follow . Also the metric expension of space only makes sense when you are talking about space itself, not other objects that are bounded by some force. Atoms, or planets or humans or gardens don't expand, only space on large scale does which is unbounded.

Going by that understanding, the garden wouldn't expand .

But the verse says The garden have
Quote from: Skeptic on March 26, 2017, 04:23 AM
You need to contextualise this more, I am struggling to follow . Also the metric expension of space only makes sense when you are talking about space itself, not other objects that are bounded by some force. Atoms, or planets or humans or gardens don't expand, only space on large scale does which is unbounded.

Going by that understanding, the garden wouldn't expand .

but the verse says The width of the garden will be the width of the heavens..quran talks about Heavens only and that includes our universe which is the first heaven
- bogart
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Expanding universe?!
Reply #4 - March 30, 2017, 10:54 AM

That is only if you accept Heavens means our current model of the universe rather than a generic "heaven" all sorts of religion invoke which is vague. These type of miracle claims require a context change of "heaven" from a religious one to a scientific one without true justification. Reject the context shift and the argument collapses. You have no reason to accept this shift. Also the new context is solely dependent upon science. For example if the Steady State theory was still mainstream these miracles would be using that model of the universe rather than the Expanding Model. If our current model is later falsified the miracle claim merely shifts to the new model as if nothing happened. This is what happens with vague and catch-all terms. You can make the terms mean what you want when you want.

The universe is made of "stuff". Atoms are discovered, atoms can be fall under my vague identification thus I am still right. Quantum reality is discovered, my terms are vague enough to include wavelength thus I am still right. Etc, Etc. I am the greatest physicist on the planet as my prediction will be right forever. Provided I can convince enough dupes with shit reading comprehension to continue my claims long after I am dead.
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