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Theme Changer

 Topic: Religion in schools to go God-free

 (Read 3897 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Religion in schools to go God-free
     OP - December 18, 2008, 10:12 AM

    Daft article heading but the content makes more sense. grin12

    Religion in schools to go God-free



    VICTORIAN state primary school students will soon have an alternative ? religious education lessons taught by people who do not believe in God and say there is "no evidence of any supernatural power".

    The Humanist Society of Victoria has developed a curriculum, which the State Government accreditation body says it intends to approve, to deliver 30-minute lessons each week of "humanist applied ethics" to primary pupils.

    Accredited volunteers will be able to teach their philosophy in the class time designated for religious instruction. As with lessons delivered by faith groups, parents will be able to request that their children do not participate.

    Victorian Humanist Society president Stephen Stuart said: "Atheistical parents will be pleased to hear that humanistic courses of ethics will soon be available in some state schools."

    But the body that accredits Victoria's 3500 Christian religious instruction volunteers, Access Ministries, says humanism is not a religion and so should not be taught in religious education time.

    Access Ministries now teaches in about two-thirds of state primary schools. Other accredited instructors teach Judaism, Buddhism and Baha'i.

    The Humanist Society does not consider itself to be a religious organisation and believes ethics have "no necessary connection with religion". Humanists believe people are responsible for their own destiny and reject the notion of a supernatural force or God.

    Fundamentalist Christian group the Salt Shakers panned the idea of humanists being given religious education class time.

    Research director Jenny Stokes said: "If you go there, where do you stop? What about witchcraft or Satanism?

    "If you accredit humanism, then those things would have an equal claim to be taught in schools."

    But RMIT professor Desmond Cahill, head of the World Conference of Religions for Peace, the body appointed by the Government to accredit all non-Christian volunteer religious teachers in state primary schools, has praised the humanist curriculum.

    He said he could foresee no problem with approving it. "Our view would be that humanist studies are a legitimate world view just as Catholicism, Anglicanism or Islam is, and that none are any more provable than the rest, just as theism or atheism are no more provable than the other."

    Professor Cahill also intends to approve a proposal by Muslim leaders to allow volunteers to teach religion in state primary schools.

    "I think there's a greater realisation that Australia's emerging as a multi-faith society, which means the acceptance of non-Christian religions ? there's an increasing realisation that the notion of religion has expanded to include all kinds of spiritualities and associated world views, including atheist and humanist world views."

    Humanist Society education director Harry Gardner said he had designed a course to be taught from prep to year 6 called "Applied Ethical Education ? Humanism for Schools". It covers subjects such as the art of living, the environment, philosophy, science and world citizenship. The curriculum is likely to be submitted for approval next year.

    Dr Gardner, a former CSIRO research scientist, said his course adopted the "honesty ethic of science (that is, not fudging results)" with the intention that children would be inspired to think for themselves.

    "If accredited for use in schools, the Humanist Society of Victoria envisages that the volunteer teachers would develop a comradely relationship to the regular religious instructors in adjacent rooms," he said.

    But Access Ministries chief executive Evonne Paddison said while it was not her decision as to who should or should not have access to state schools, she did not think humanism fell under "the relevant legislation to be classified as a faith-based religion in religious instruction in the way that Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism and Hinduism" did.

    Ms Stokes said humanists could not expect to have it both ways. "It doesn't make sense because they proclaim themselves not to be a religion," she said.

    Religious instruction in state schools should be Christian because "basically we are a Christian nation", she said.

    Now that last line is a load of codswallop. Stokes and Co may like to think of Australia as a Christian nation but in reality it's largely (mainly?) secular. Anyway I think providing an alternative to religious instruction is not a bad thing at all. Many kids are excused from RE classes anyway but do not have anything else provided in lieu of them. Classes in ethics are an obvious alternative.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Religion in schools to go God-free
     Reply #1 - December 18, 2008, 11:17 AM

    Quote
    Ms Stokes said... religious instruction in state schools should be Christian because "basically we are a Christian nation."

    Sounds like something you'd hear here in the states. I had to do a double take to which nation she was referring to as Christian.

    Do Aborigines have classes? Because basically Aus. was a nation of Aborigines...

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Religion in schools to go God-free
     Reply #2 - December 18, 2008, 11:31 AM

    Aboriginal kids in state schools get the same curriculum as everyone else.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Religion in schools to go God-free
     Reply #3 - December 18, 2008, 11:37 AM

    I meant like Aboriginal wisdom/spirituality, as opposed to Christianity...  Roll Eyes

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Religion in schools to go God-free
     Reply #4 - December 18, 2008, 11:56 AM

    If they can arrange teaching staff they could probably get those classes. Thing is a lot of Aborigines don't believe that stuff anyway these days, so they wouldn't all necessarily want to attend just as other kids wouldn't necessarily want to attend Christian classes.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Religion in schools to go God-free
     Reply #5 - December 18, 2008, 12:05 PM

    Sarcasm doesn't read well in print... I wasn't at all serious, intending to be snarky.

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Religion in schools to go God-free
     Reply #6 - December 18, 2008, 12:07 PM

    Fairy nuff. It's getting on for midnight here so don't expect stunning acuity at my end.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Religion in schools to go God-free
     Reply #7 - December 18, 2008, 12:11 PM

    The worrying aspect of this is that teaching "30-minute lessons each week of "humanist applied ethics" to primary pupils." still sounds a little too much like teaching children what to think instead of how to think.  Instead of indoctrinating children with a religious view of the world they could well be indoctrinating them with a "humanist" view of the world, which is not necessarily much better for the development of a child's mind - especially at primary school level.

    Regards,
    Gonzo

    "The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. Whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles" - Ayn Rand
  • Re: Religion in schools to go God-free
     Reply #8 - December 18, 2008, 12:19 PM

    You could say that about any classes at all in primary school. It all depends on how they are presented. Frankly I think it more likely that the non-religious ones will presented in such a way as to encourage thought because I remember what the religious classes where like at schools I attended. I admit this is largely pure optimism on my part though, and they may well be presented a la the Little Red Book.  Wink

    These classes are not compulsory in any case, at least not from the school's perspective. Which classes, if any, are attended depends on the child's parents.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Religion in schools to go God-free
     Reply #9 - December 18, 2008, 01:58 PM

    You could say that about any classes at all in primary school. It all depends on how they are presented. Frankly I think it more likely that the non-religious ones will presented in such a way as to encourage thought because I remember what the religious classes where like at schools I attended. I admit this is largely pure optimism on my part though, and they may well be presented a la the Little Red Book.  Wink

    These classes are not compulsory in any case, at least not from the school's perspective. Which classes, if any, are attended depends on the child's parents.


     Afro Exactly, personally as a teacher I would present this in a way designed to get the children to think about this, rather than what they should think.  I do this with my own kids all the time so I know how it is presented is what they will gain out of it.

    This sounds quite promising to me.  dance

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Religion in schools to go God-free
     Reply #10 - December 18, 2008, 02:48 PM

    You could say that about any classes at all in primary school. It all depends on how they are presented. Frankly I think it more likely that the non-religious ones will presented in such a way as to encourage thought because I remember what the religious classes where like at schools I attended. I admit this is largely pure optimism on my part though, and they may well be presented a la the Little Red Book.  Wink

    These classes are not compulsory in any case, at least not from the school's perspective. Which classes, if any, are attended depends on the child's parents.

    When I was at school.  RE classes were more 'factual' than 'philosophical'.  I.e. Sikhs believe x,y,z, Christians believe abc, Jews.... Muslims... , this is a Christian church, this is a Hindu temple, etc, etc and these are some of the cultural practices that go along with each religion...

    It was more aimed at 'in life you will meet different people who believe different things'.  The goal was more mutual understanding than trying to get students to puzzle out what was true.

    If humanism was to be added to the mix, it wouldn't particularly bother me.  It's just that I'm not sure you'd have much to say on the 'cultural practices and rituals' bit.
  • Re: Religion in schools to go God-free
     Reply #11 - December 18, 2008, 04:50 PM

    I like Dr Gardner's style. I'll bet there's no hatred in his credo. And I'll bet it's all bang up to date and not 6000 years old too. Kids need some ethical framework. I wish we'd had this when I was at school. All we had were Bible Studies and we all failed the early years exams deliberately so that we wouldn't have to take it the following year.

    That said, I think codified 'Belief' of any kind should be kept right out of schools.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Religion in schools to go God-free
     Reply #12 - December 22, 2008, 01:33 PM

    Part of me thought I wish I'd had this at school, but then I remembered how it really was back then and realized that such topics would just have bored the hell out of me! :d
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