My problem with Robert Spencer

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My problem with Robert Spencer
OP - March 22, 2009, 01:48 AM

I've never really read any of Robert Spencer's books, but saw his documentary named "Islam: What the west needs to know"

I can honestly say, this man really does piss me off a bit. Though he makes some good points about Mohammad, and some verses in the Quran, he paints all of Muslims with the same brush. He advises people to be "suspicious" of Muslims. In some cases, he also refers to Anjem Choudhary and illustrates what he believes is the core intention of Muslims around the world.

I think while it is very important to criticize Islam, it is also important to criticize bigots like Wilders and Spencer who really does paint all Muslims under the banner of "evil."

Does anyone else feel this way about people like Spencer and Wilders?

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Re: My problem with Robert Spencer
Reply #1 - March 22, 2009, 02:03 AM

Spencer wants to find absolutely NO good in Islam or Muhammad, but his book on Muhammad (painting him as a terrorist) is actually very useful because he takes wholly Islamic sources to show Muhammad's actions, wars, marriages of convenience, assassinations, etc.

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Re: My problem with Robert Spencer
Reply #2 - March 22, 2009, 03:24 AM

Kinda,

I mean he does raise excellent points, and provide good counter arguments;

and yeah, I remember once I read for him an article talking about moderate Muslims and how he does relate to the fact that they exist and can somehow reform;

whatever.

"I'm Agnostic about God."

Richard Dawkins
==
"If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran." Maryam Namazie
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Re: My problem with Robert Spencer
Reply #3 - March 22, 2009, 05:19 AM

Quote from: Emerald on March 22, 2009, 03:24 AM
Kinda,

I mean he does raise excellent points, and provide good counter arguments;

and yeah, I remember once I read for him an article talking about moderate Muslims and how he does relate to the fact that they exist and can somehow reform;

whatever.

Would you happen to have a link perhaps?

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Re: My problem with Robert Spencer
Reply #4 - March 22, 2009, 07:03 AM

Quote from: Tommy on March 22, 2009, 05:19 AM
Would you happen to have a link perhaps?

This is Spencer's site, loads of stuff he writes on a daily basis is bigoted crap, but he quotes relevant sources for all his writings.He unfortunately quotes only the most violent & bigoted opinions & presents Islamic history from the most anti Muslim perspective. www.jihadwatch.org/

I don't like Spencer & Wilders, but I think the emergence of such people was a somewhat natural consequence of Islamic fundamentalism & double standards. Spencer's family were survivors of the Armenian Genocide & unlike the Jewish Holocaust in Europe, which the Europeans have amply apologised for,the Armenian Genocide isn't even acknowledged by the Turks. Its natural that this will create grievances in the minds of its victims & their descendants, isn't it? Israel was formed as a Jewish state around the same time as Pakistan & East Pakistan(now Bangladesh) were formed as Muslim nations-& both left millions dead & homeless but the formation of Pakistan left more dead & homeless. There're millions of Bangladeshi illegal immigrants in India & Bangladeshi terror outfit Huji(Harkat ul Jihad Islami) is behind some terror attacks. How do people react to this? Britain, Netherlands, Spain & France gave citizenship to millions of Muslims, who plotted & conducted terror attacks against their citizens, leaving many dead & maimed. And there is a Leftist Press worldwide, bent on blaming Islamist double standards on everything but Islam. Non Muslim apologists like Karen Armstrong justify every bigoted act of the Prophet, like the extermination of the Banu Quraiza tribe. Saladin is presented as a great hero & the Crusaders as murderous bigots in the Western media & fanatic Tipu Sultan as a great freedom fighter in India. There's a huge attempt at negationism & concealing the historical as well as present atrocities of Islamists in various Muslim as well as non Muslim media of the world, while pouring undeserved scorn on any non Muslim retaliation.

Its an unfortunate but true fact that various important cities of many countries' or the world have been threatened or attacked by Muslims in recent years-be it Mumbai, London, New York, Moscow or Madrid as have beautiful tourist places be they Jaipur or Bali.

Wilders' & Spencer's emergence maybe unfortunate, but it is a neccessary corrective to the mental Dhimmitude of other prominent public figures & the media as well as the extremism & denial of past extremisms of Muslims.

World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
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Re: My problem with Robert Spencer
Reply #5 - March 22, 2009, 07:38 AM

Quote from: Rashna on March 22, 2009, 07:03 AM
Quote from: Tommy on March 22, 2009, 05:19 AM
Would you happen to have a link perhaps?

This is Spencer's site, loads of stuff he writes on a daily basis is bigoted crap, but he quotes relevant sources for all his writings.He unfortunately quotes only the most violent & bigoted opinions & presents Islamic history from the most anti Muslim perspective. www.jihadwatch.org/

I don't like Spencer & Wilders, but I think the emergence of such people was a somewhat natural consequence of Islamic fundamentalism & double standards. Spencer's family were survivors of the Armenian Genocide & unlike the Jewish Holocaust in Europe, which the Europeans have amply apologised for,the Armenian Genocide isn't even acknowledged by the Turks. Its natural that this will create grievances in the minds of its victims & their descendants, isn't it? Israel was formed as a Jewish state around the same time as Pakistan & East Pakistan(now Bangladesh) were formed as Muslim nations-& both left millions dead & homeless but the formation of Pakistan left more dead & homeless. There're millions of Bangladeshi illegal immigrants in India & Bangladeshi terror outfit Huji(Harkat ul Jihad Islami) is behind some terror attacks. How do people react to this? Britain, Netherlands, Spain & France gave citizenship to millions of Muslims, who plotted & conducted terror attacks against their citizens, leaving many dead & maimed. And there is a Leftist Press worldwide, bent on blaming Islamist double standards on everything but Islam. Non Muslim apologists like Karen Armstrong justify every bigoted act of the Prophet, like the extermination of the Banu Quraiza tribe. Saladin is presented as a great hero & the Crusaders as murderous bigots in the Western media & fanatic Tipu Sultan as a great freedom fighter in India. There's a huge attempt at negationism & concealing the historical as well as present atrocities of Islamists in various Muslim as well as non Muslim media of the world, while pouring undeserved scorn on any non Muslim retaliation.

Its an unfortunate but true fact that various important cities of many countries' or the world have been threatened or attacked by Muslims in recent years-be it Mumbai, London, New York, Moscow or Madrid as have beautiful tourist places be they Jaipur or Bali.

Wilders' & Spencer's emergence maybe unfortunate, but it is a neccessary corrective to the mental Dhimmitude of other prominent public figures & the media as well as the extremism & denial of past extremisms of Muslims.

Rashna,

I can always count on you to write a thoughtful/informative post. Thanks

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Re: My problem with Robert Spencer
Reply #6 - March 22, 2009, 08:26 AM

Quote from: Tommy on March 22, 2009, 01:48 AM

I've never really read any of Robert Spencer's books, but saw his documentary named "Islam: What the west needs to know"

This documentary was actually crucial in my decision to leave Islam, but it had a lot to do with timing and my state of mind when I watched.

My parents showed it to me after having shown me all of the violent verses from the Qur'an that were presented in the movie. Since I'd already had a chance to see these verses in the holy book myself and tried to defend them as I looked for context, different translations, scholarly explanations, and read tafsirs' take on them, when I saw the movie I could not cry "out of context!" excuses... not even to myself. If such hadn't been the case, I think I would have hated the movie and everyone who made it for manipulating information to show Islam in a bad light.

The problem with Robert Spencer I think is that, like with FFI, a person must have some basic factual information about the problems with Islam before being exposed to his manner of presenting it. Otherwise, the claims he makes seem so unbelievably extreme that a liberal individual (Muslim or not) will likely think that the facts are being exaggerated or cherry-picked with bad intentions and ignore the message altogether. The sad reality is, much cherry picking and exaggeration are required to show the real Islam in a GOOD light.

I had already seen tons of evidence of Islam being wrong before I watched the movie, but I was staying very strongly in denial. I think deeply in my subconscious I thought, so what if it wasn't all good or even the truth... believing in my peaceful version of Islam was not hurting anyone. When I saw this movie though, I couldn't hold up with denial any longer. I knew that the extreme Muslims that they were showing did not represent most or even the majority of Muslims... but I could not deny that these people were simply following what the scriptures told them. And I could not be a part of a religion that could create so much hate and suffering. So it was at that point, with the evidence of the violence in the scriptures and what it could lead to in the real world presented so clearly before me, that my mind was freed from denial.

"when you've got thousands of hadith/sunnah and a book like the Qur'an where abrogation is propagated by some; anyone with a grudge and some time on their hands can find something to confirm what ever they wish"- Kaiwai
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Re: My problem with Robert Spencer
Reply #7 - March 22, 2009, 08:40 AM

Quote from: Tommy on March 22, 2009, 05:19 AM
Quote from: Emerald on March 22, 2009, 03:24 AM
Kinda,

I mean he does raise excellent points, and provide good counter arguments;

and yeah, I remember once I read for him an article talking about moderate Muslims and how he does relate to the fact that they exist and can somehow reform;

whatever.

Would you happen to have a link perhaps?

==========

I'll try to look it up, this was long time ago (in his site).

"I'm Agnostic about God."

Richard Dawkins
==
"If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran." Maryam Namazie
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Re: My problem with Robert Spencer
Reply #8 - March 22, 2009, 09:28 AM

Ok, I can't find it, but remembered this:

Quote
Dear Ms. Lekovic:

On the O'Reilly Factor with Laura Ingraham Monday evening, you asserted that I believe that the only good Muslim is an ex-Muslim, and that I wish to drive all Muslims into the sea.

In fact, I have never stated either of those positions, and do not believe them.

Accordingly, I am hereby requesting that you issue a public retraction of both statements.

Thank you in advance.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/014162.php

"I'm Agnostic about God."

Richard Dawkins
==
"If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran." Maryam Namazie
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