Noah's Ark; Arabic speakers please

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- MrSilly
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Noah's Ark; Arabic speakers please
OP - May 06, 2009, 11:52 AM

Hi there.

I saw a debate recently between 2 people debating the nature of Noah's Ark from an Islamic perspective.

One argued that the flood associated with this was a local flood only around Noah's people.
The other argued it was a global flood as per Jewish/Christian teaching, and as per implied by Tafsirs.

The Quran is quite vague actually about this. Can an Arabic speaker comment on what exactly the word "earth" is translated from in the vereses

054.011
So We opened the gates of heaven, with water pouring forth.
054.012
And We caused the earth to gush forth with springs, so the waters met (and rose) to the extent decreed.

023.027
So We inspired him (with this message): "Construct the Ark within Our sight and under Our guidance: then when comes Our Command, and the fountains of the earth gush forth, take thou on board pairs ofevery species, male and female, and thy family- except those of them against whom the Word has already gone forth: And address Me not in favour of the wrong-doers; for they shall be drowned (in the Flood).

Is the use of the word "earth" in Arabic refering to "earth" as in soil, or earth as in the earth
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Re: Noah's Ark; Arabic speakers please
Reply #1 - May 06, 2009, 11:55 AM

That's interesting. So if that is all it says on the subject it could easily be read as being a local flood.

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Re: Noah's Ark; Arabic speakers please
Reply #2 - May 06, 2009, 07:04 PM

The word is 'Ard.

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Re: Noah's Ark; Arabic speakers please
Reply #3 - May 06, 2009, 08:33 PM

Yes the word is Ard which means land/earth. Whether a local or global flood is the intention is open to debate. When I have time I will look up some tafsirs for you.
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Re: Noah's Ark; Arabic speakers please
Reply #4 - May 06, 2009, 08:45 PM

I'm curious now. Is that all the Quran and ahadith say on the subject of Da Fludde? It's definitely a lot less detailed than the Jewish/Christian version and leaves a lot more scope for argument.

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Re: Noah's Ark; Arabic speakers please
Reply #5 - May 06, 2009, 08:48 PM

You can see why people are claiming it was a localised flood. To have at least 20 million animals on one ship is obviously not true.

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Re: Noah's Ark; Arabic speakers please
Reply #6 - May 06, 2009, 08:50 PM

Yep. It would make a lot of sense to go for the local version when arguing against anyone with a lick of sense. The Christian literalists have no chance whatsoever.

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Re: Noah's Ark; Arabic speakers please
Reply #7 - May 06, 2009, 08:55 PM

This is why religious texts are kinda dumb.

If they are the clear and perfect word of god....why dont we know exactly what they are talking about 90% of the time?

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Re: Noah's Ark; Arabic speakers please
Reply #8 - May 06, 2009, 09:42 PM

Quote from: MrSilly on May 06, 2009, 11:52 AM
Hi there.

I saw a debate recently between 2 people debating the nature of Noah's Ark from an Islamic perspective.

One argued that the flood associated with this was a local flood only around Noah's people.
The other argued it was a global flood as per Jewish/Christian teaching, and as per implied by Tafsirs.

The Quran is quite vague actually about this. Can an Arabic speaker comment on what exactly the word "earth" is translated from in the vereses

054.011
So We opened the gates of heaven, with water pouring forth.
054.012
And We caused the earth to gush forth with springs, so the waters met (and rose) to the extent decreed.

023.027
So We inspired him (with this message): "Construct the Ark within Our sight and under Our guidance: then when comes Our Command, and the fountains of the earth gush forth, take thou on board pairs ofevery species, male and female, and thy family- except those of them against whom the Word has already gone forth: And address Me not in favour of the wrong-doers; for they shall be drowned (in the Flood).

Is the use of the word "earth" in Arabic refering to "earth" as in soil, or earth as in the earth

all the prophets were local therefore flood/punisment was local

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the clash of civilization.

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Re: Noah's Ark; Arabic speakers please
Reply #9 - May 07, 2009, 04:06 AM

I am pretty sure you people know by now that the story of Noah is DIRECT PLAGIARISM from the Sumerian 'Epic of Gilgamesh' which was written at least a 1000 years before the Torah first mentioned their version with animals and what not.

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Re: Noah's Ark; Arabic speakers please
Reply #10 - May 07, 2009, 05:59 AM

Who says it has to be plagarism? It was a story that was told around the area. The authors of the Torah most likely didn't read the Gilgamesh Epic, they just heard it like everyone else and incorporated it into their text of 'history and origins' of the world.

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Re: Noah's Ark; Arabic speakers please
Reply #11 - May 07, 2009, 04:53 PM

Quote from: Suprah on May 07, 2009, 04:06 AM
I am pretty sure you people know by now that the story of Noah is DIRECT PLAGIARISM from the Sumerian 'Epic of Gilgamesh' which was written at least a 1000 years before the Torah first mentioned their version with animals and what not.

It is not just told around the area. This story can be found in most cultures around the world!

Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

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Re: Noah's Ark; Arabic speakers please
Reply #12 - May 07, 2009, 07:55 PM

Try part IV of this : SAPROPELS
http://www.unu.edu/unupress/lecture16-17.html

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Re: Noah's Ark; Arabic speakers please
Reply #13 - May 07, 2009, 09:17 PM

Quote from: awais on May 07, 2009, 05:59 AM
Who says it has to be plagarism? It was a story that was told around the area. The authors of the Torah most likely didn't read the Gilgamesh Epic, they just heard it like everyone else and incorporated it into their text of 'history and origins' of the world.

Indeed!

For example, are Oasis guilty of plagiarism or just being derivative? LOL

The fact is that nothing comes out of a vacuum.
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Re: Noah's Ark; Arabic speakers please
Reply #14 - May 07, 2009, 10:30 PM

[off topic pedantic wankery]

Well, actually, some things do come out of a vacuum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_fluctuations

[/off topic pedantic wankery]

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