Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


New Britain
Today at 01:46 PM

Islam and Science Fiction
by zeca
Yesterday at 11:06 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
February 08, 2025, 01:38 PM

German nationalist party ...
February 07, 2025, 01:11 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
February 06, 2025, 03:13 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
February 05, 2025, 10:04 PM

Gaza assault
February 05, 2025, 10:04 AM

AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
February 03, 2025, 09:25 AM

The origins of Judaism
by zeca
February 02, 2025, 04:29 PM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
February 01, 2025, 11:48 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
February 01, 2025, 07:29 PM

News From Syria
by zeca
December 28, 2024, 12:29 AM

Theme Changer

 Topic: British Man Kidnapped & Brutally Murdered in Mali by Islamic Militants!

 (Read 3906 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • British Man Kidnapped & Brutally Murdered in Mali by Islamic Militants!
     OP - June 10, 2009, 04:26 PM

    This is so sad!


    Quote
    A HARROWING account of the final hours of the kidnapped British tourist Edwin Dyer before he was murdered by Islamic militants in the Sahara desert last week has been given by an Arab intermediary who was negotiating for his release.

    According to the negotiator, the fate of Dyer, 60, an opera-loving sales manager who came from Reading, Berkshire, but lived in Austria, was sealed two days before the killing when his captors separated him at gunpoint from Werner Greiner, 57, a Swiss lawyer they were also holding hostage.
    The men's ordeal had begun in January when they were captured with other tourists from Germany and Switzerland after setting out for a nomadic cultural festival near the lawless border between Niger and Mali.
    They are believed to have been sold on to a hardline Islamist group in Mali under Abel Hamid Abu Zeid, 43, an Algerian militant listed by western governments and the United Nations as an Al-Qaeda member.
    Informed sources say that after weeks of intensive negotiation, Germany and Switzerland paid a substantial ransom, although they deny it. This apparently led to the release in April of the other tourists, Marianne Pezold, 76, a retired teacher from Germany, and Greiner's wife Gabriella, 54, a Swiss politician.
    Having freed the women, the kidnappers decided to hold on to the two men to extract concessions from western governments. They were aware that accounts by the freed hostages when they came home of how they had to sleep rough in miserable conditions, surviving on a diet of bread and brackish water with no medical supplies and under the constant threat of death, would increase pressure on government officials.
    Finally the kidnappers grew tired of waiting, decided to make an example of Dyer, who was unmarried, and killed him.
    "They separated Dyer in front of us. I could tell it was a bad sign," the intermediary said. "Negotiations were deadlocked. Britain was categorical that it would not give in to their demand to release Abu Qatada, the radical cleric who is imprisoned in Britain, in return for Dyer and, above all, it rejected paying ransom money for him."
    The negotiator said that Zeid, the leader of the Islamist group, was particularly hostile towards Britain. "Who are these British?" he asked. "Just western unbelievers. Islam tells us not to have any links with unbelievers. That is why this man [Dyer] will be executed in the name of God."
    Also invoking the name of Allah, the intermediary told Zeid not to kill Dyer. Zeid ignored him, abruptly turning his back and walking away into the sand. The intermediary, who cannot be named but is a dignitary from northern Mali with substantial influence among local tribes, used a satellite phone to alert the Malian authorities in Bamako, the capital, to Dyer's imminent execution.
    The next day he was summoned back by Zeid, giving him hope that the militant leader had changed his mind. Instead, Zeid became even angrier, warning that henceforth any westerner caught venturing into the Sahara would die.
    "They will see that we are jihadists, envoys of God, and their deaths will be the fault of their governments and their policies,"he said.

    Dyer was then reunited briefly with Greiner. "Dyer was wearing a turban. He was very afraid and was sobbing. The Swiss man lowered his head," he said.
    "Dyer knew what awaited him. He said something I did not understand and wept. His hands were bound."
    "Zeid told me to leave. As I turned away I heard two gunshots. I do not know whether these shots killed Dyer and they beheaded his corpse afterwards."
    Other sources said Dyer had been beheaded in what Gordon Brown, the British prime minister, called an "appalling and bar-baric act of terrorism". In a statement announcing Dyer's death, Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (a region of north Africa) quoted a verse from the Koran:"When ye meet the unbelievers, smite at their necks."
    Although many Europeans have been kidnapped in the Sahara since 2003, murder has been rare. Western security officials will now seek to find out whether Dyer?s killing was a tragic anomaly or more sinister and dangerous. It may indicate a heightened security threat from the increasingly radical Islamist groups operating in the Sahara.
    Zeid had indoctrinated the young members of his faction, which called itself the Sahara Mujaheddin, with videos showing the beheading of hostages in Iraq and Afghanistan and hate-filled preaching by radical clerics.
    Paradoxically, given the extreme conditions in which his group lives in the desert, they watched the videos on lap-tops and listened to preaching on MP3 players, showing a sophistication they had probably acquired in militant Islamic schools.
    Otherwise they were dirt poor, claiming to own nothing but their AK-47 rifles and the clothes on their backs.
    One of the most graphic accounts of what it was like to be a prisoner of Zeid?s militants came last week from an Austrian couple, Wolfgang Ebner and Andrea Kloiber, who were held captive between February and October 2008.
    "There was constant aware-ness that we would be killed at any instant," said Ebner, an accountant. "They repeated to us, "We will kill you if your governments do not pay," and we knew they meant it.
    When the negotiations for their release reached a stalemate, the kidnappers received permission from an Islamic cleric to kill Kloiber as, according to sharia (Islamic law), women, children and old people must not be harmed during a jihad, or holy war.
    "We knew then they would not hesitate for a second to execute us. We had to live in a constant fear of death as we were being transferred from one place to another every few days."
    Ebner said he had been abused only once as a punishment for losing his temper. "They made me sit in the sun at noon for two hours at a temperature of over 55C. I almost died then, but I learnt my lesson and did not resist after that."
    Tragically, Dyer had ignored his doctor's advice that, because he had the flu, he should not travel to the Sahara. Travelling was his hobby and he returned to Africa whenever he could.
    He was born in Germany, the son of a British officer and German mother, and obtained degrees in mathematics, German and English. Since 1973 he had lived in Attnang-Puchheim, a sleepy town at the foot of the Austrian Alps where he worked for a plumbing company. "He was a very special gentleman, a very kind and gentle man," said Alois Gut, his employer and friend. Britain remained adamant last week that its commitment to confront terrorism remained unshaken by Dyer's brutal murder.
    "It strengthens our determination never to concede to the demands of terrorists, nor to pay ransoms," Brown said.
    Gut, Dyer's boss, noted that his friend had been offered Austrian citizenship but declined it on "patriotic grounds".

     "He was faithful to the Crown and wished to remain a British citizen although he felt like us and was considered to be one of us. Sadly, it seems he would have had a better chance of surviving the kidnapping had he not had a British passport."
    Additional reporting: Serge Daniel in Mali and Adam Lewitt
    Militant brotherhood
    Sahara Mujaheddin
    Faction of Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb that held the western tourists. Members aged 14 to 24 said to have been trained in Islamic schools in Algeria, Mauritania, Niger and Mali
    Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb
    North African wing of Al-Qaeda, sworn to overthrow Algerian government. Blamed for a series of attacks on Algerian security forces, it has also declared its intention to attack French and American targets. Sought and received recognition from Ayman al-Zawahiri, one of Osama Bin Laden's senior lieutenants, in 2006
    Al-Qaeda
    Bin Laden's jihadist group based in border areas between Pakistan and Afghanistan whose September 11 attacks in 2001 spawned affiliates in several other parts of the world

     

    I used to think Mali was safe! I'm extremely angry & upset over this man's death sad but I think Britain did the right thing by refusing to release Abu Qatada, the radical cleric who is imprisoned in Britain, in return for Dyer and, above all, it rejected paying ransom money for him.

    Caving in to such demands is always wrong & dangerously counter productive.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: British Man Kidnapped & Brutally Murdered in Mali by Islamic Militants!
     Reply #1 - June 10, 2009, 05:07 PM

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camouflage_passport

    They used to sell these in the back of Soldier of Fortune magazine. Not sure if they do anymore, but basically they look like the real passport of a country that is either no longer in existence or has changed its name (Burma, British Honduras, Eastern Samoa, etc.). The idea being that you hide your US/UK passport and carry one of these on you instead, and when hijackers are collecting passports to decide who to kidnap or who to kill, hopefully you ain't it. Back in the day, when I was underage I was planning on getting one of these to use for boozing purposes, but was able to find cheaper alternatives.

    Disclaimer: Although I think possession of these kinds of "passports" is legal in most countries, I'm not a lawyer, so I'm making no claims as to the legality of these documents in your country, nor am I encouraging the sale, possession, transfer or use of such documents-- and although possession may be legal in your country, actual use for "official" purposes almost certainly is not legal and will get you in lots of trouble. Check with your country's State Department or national law enforcement agency to determine legality if you are thinking of buying one.

    Personally, I'd avoid poking around parts of the world where kidnapping and murders of tourists is common without being armed.

    fuck you
  • Re: British Man Kidnapped & Brutally Murdered in Mali by Islamic Militants!
     Reply #2 - June 10, 2009, 05:13 PM



    This is a nice one to avoid being kidnapped by Al Queda militants. Not just U.S.A.\U.K. but Indians, Russians, French etc need them as well.

    Others like the Thai Buddhist pregnant woman who was brutally murdered by Islamists & other Thai Buddhists like her should start wearing the hijab Muslimah & learn a few short sentences like "La illaha..." Filipino Catholics could do the same thing. Sudanese Christians & animists should follow suit... & all the other locations should invent different coping mechanisms.  grin12

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: British Man Kidnapped & Brutally Murdered in Mali by Islamic Militants!
     Reply #3 - June 10, 2009, 05:36 PM

    This is a nice one to avoid being kidnapped by Al Queda militants. Not just U.S.A.\U.K. but Indians, Russians, French etc need them as well.

    Others like the Thai Buddhist pregnant woman who was brutally murdered by Islamists & other Thai Buddhists like her should start wearing the hijab Muslimah & learn a few short sentences like "La illaha..." Filipino Catholics could do the same thing. Sudanese Christians & animists should follow suit... & all the other locations should invent different coping mechanisms.  grin12


    Whatever. American and British tourists obtaining one of these camo passports is a very minor precaution to take that could possibly end up saving their lives. Yeah it might not work, but there's a chance it will, and it's certainly easier than learning Arabic, pretending to be Muslim, or obtaining a side arm in a foreign country.

    I'm cautious in areas I'm unfamiliar with. I try to learn some of the language, carry most of my money in my sock or money belt, carry a small amount in my pocket or wallet, and try to pick up a knife if possible (oddly enough, though pistols are mostly legal here whereas switchblades/automatic knives are not, in Latin America it's frequently the reverse and you can pick up switchblades in market stalls for cheap). Seeing as how I tend to stray from safe tourist locations (as I find being around a bunch of other tourists while traveling to be mostly pointless), these seem like reasonable precautions, and given that one time a couple of Mexican cops tried jacking me up, making me empty my pockets of a few pesos and demanding "dolares! dolares!", which I claimed I had none of with a terrified and innocent look on my face, having the 700 US dollars stuffed in my sock proved a good idea at the time.

    So if I were traveling to North Africa, unless I were staying with my family in Egypt, I would strongly consider getting a camo passport.

    One thing is for sure, I'd do my best to avoid dying like this guy did-- I can't think of many worse ways to go than that-- held captive for days in horrible conditions, waiting for rescue that never comes, dying afraid, helpless and alone. That kind of death is much more tragic and horrible, in my opinion, than being killed on the spot. Reading stories like this or about Nick Berg upset me much more than reading about another suicide bombing or shooting attack. Better to resist and be killed in the act of doing so. Fuck being tied up, on your knees and having your head sawed off. Fuck that.

    fuck you
  • Re: British Man Kidnapped & Brutally Murdered in Mali by Islamic Militants!
     Reply #4 - June 10, 2009, 05:48 PM

    Whatever. American and British tourists obtaining one of these camo passports is a very minor precaution to take that could possibly end up saving their lives. Yeah it might not work, but there's a chance it will, and it's certainly easier than learning Arabic, pretending to be Muslim, or obtaining a side arm in a foreign country.


    I was talking about people who could & regularly do end up getting butchered in their own country-America still has a tiny % of Muslims & in Britain there's adequate surveillance so that most attacks have been thwarted-for people like Filipino Catholics, Kashmiri Hindus, Thai Buddhists, Sudanese Christians & animists etc, they really can't obtain a fake passport & it wouldn't help them either.

    In circumstances where being Muslim might save lives-like in that attack in Southern Thailand where Buddhist teachers were slaughtered but Muslim teachers spared, it might be sensible to regularly wear a  Muslimah & pretend to be a devout Muslimah, course it would be hot & uncomfortable as well as living a lie but who cares? Other people from Sudan to Philippines have to be extra sensitive to these people & quitely tolerate all sufferings & nuisances while at the same time sympathising with folks like Hamas, or they're part of some nasty global neocon agenda right?  Wink

    Or in cases like the Mumbai Massacre last year, when Pakistani jihadists mercilessly slaughtered Indians, Brits, Americans & a young Jewish Rabbinic family in various locations but spared a Turkish couple coz they were Muslims, it might be clever for non Muslim white tourists to learn a few Turkish words & acquire some familiarity with Islam, so as to be safe.  Tongue

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: British Man Kidnapped & Brutally Murdered in Mali by Islamic Militants!
     Reply #5 - June 10, 2009, 06:16 PM

    I was talking about people who could & regularly do end up getting butchered in their own country-America still has a tiny % of Muslims & in Britain there's adequate surveillance so that most attacks have been thwarted-for people like Filipino Catholics, Kashmiri Hindus, Thai Buddhists, Sudanese Christians & animists etc, they really can't obtain a fake passport & it wouldn't help them either.

    In circumstances where being Muslim might save lives-like in that attack in Southern Thailand where Buddhist teachers were slaughtered but Muslim teachers spared, it might be sensible to regularly wear a  Muslimah & pretend to be a devout Muslimah, course it would be hot & uncomfortable as well as living a lie but who cares? Other people from Sudan to Philippines have to be extra sensitive to these people & quitely tolerate all sufferings & nuisances while at the same time sympathising with folks like Hamas, or they're part of some nasty global neocon agenda right?  Wink

    Or in cases like the Mumbai Massacre last year, when Pakistani jihadists mercilessly slaughtered Indians, Brits, Americans & a young Jewish Rabbinic family in various locations but spared a Turkish couple coz they were Muslims, it might be clever for non Muslim white tourists to learn a few Turkish words & acquire some familiarity with Islam, so as to be safe.  Tongue


    What the fuck is your problem?

    fuck you
  • Re: British Man Kidnapped & Brutally Murdered in Mali by Islamic Militants!
     Reply #6 - June 10, 2009, 06:19 PM

    What the fuck is your problem?


    Nothing, thinking up some good life saving means for non Muslims who aren't Brits\Americans & still face significant danger everyday from Islamists all over the Earth! We can't blame their problems on evil America or Israel though! cool2

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: British Man Kidnapped & Brutally Murdered in Mali by Islamic Militants!
     Reply #7 - June 10, 2009, 06:22 PM

    Nothing, thinking up some good life saving means for non Muslims who aren't Brits\Americans & still face significant danger everyday from Islamists all over the Earth! We can't blame their problems on evil America or Israel though! cool2


    No, you're thinking about how to start an argument for no good reason.

    fuck you
  • Re: British Man Kidnapped & Brutally Murdered in Mali by Islamic Militants!
     Reply #8 - June 10, 2009, 06:30 PM

    No, you're thinking about how to start an argument for no good reason.


    Nope again, I am doing what you said you would do-you'd get a fake passport if you happen to travel to someplace dangerous for Americans\Brits coz you, like practically everyone else, hope to live & be free from death or torture. Living in the United States means that you're generally safe, except some stray 9\11 or Arkansas shooter & you'd get a fake passport in case you travel to some dangerous places.In the meantime you can happily explain on internet forums  that Islamic countries can solve their own issues & big bad West need not interfere etc, etc. I was  Thinking hard how less fortunate people faced with regular Islamist terrorism in their countries & localities can cope.

    Sadly, life isn't so easy for loads of other people of many races & nationalities, who have nothing to do do with America\Israel yet suffer Islamist attacks regularly, for them fake passports are insufficient to save their lives.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: British Man Kidnapped & Brutally Murdered in Mali by Islamic Militants!
     Reply #9 - June 10, 2009, 06:56 PM

    Living in the United States means that you're generally safe, except some stray 9\11 or Arkansas shooter & you'd get a fake passport in case you travel to some dangerous places.


    Safe? Or safe from Islamists in particular? Perhaps you can explain to me what difference it makes to the dead person and his/her family that they were shot dead by an enraged driver or a stray bullet rather than an Islamic extremist?

    Quote
    In the meantime you can happily explain on internet forums  that Islamic countries can solve their own issues & big bad West need not interfere etc, etc.


    Let me break some very fucking simple concepts down for you:

    1. It's an issue of national sovereignty. How would you like it if the ISI started interfering in Indian elections (assuming they haven't already, which is a pretty big assumption)? Well, wee one, if you accept the principle of national sovereignty and expect it to be respected by the international community at large you can't go around saying that "good" governments get to interfere with the affairs of "bad" governments-- doesn't work that way-- either you respect national sovereignty or you don't.

    2. It's not your tax dollars being spent on this shit. It's not your government, which is supposed to be responsible to its own people, no one else's, that is the main offender here. It's mine and I'm supposed to have a fucking right in this country to have a say on how my government conducts itself and spends MY money.

    Quote
    I was  Thinking hard how less fortunate people faced with regular Islamist terrorism in their countries & localities can cope.


    No, you were being an ass.

    Quote
    Sadly, life isn't so easy for loads of other people of many races & nationalities, who have nothing to do do with America\Israel yet suffer Islamist attacks regularly, for them fake passports are insufficient to save their lives.


    No shit, Sherlock.

    fuck you
  • Re: British Man Kidnapped & Brutally Murdered in Mali by Islamic Militants!
     Reply #10 - June 10, 2009, 07:10 PM

    Duh. I know all those concepts, I respect your concerns about your Government & you have a right to worry as well as express your feelings.

    But this Islamist movement globally is huge covers loads of locations & can't be casually explained away by saying stuff like Zionism\failure of Arab nationalism\American interference\European right wingers etc, since it effects so many other locations, religions & races which have nothing to do with the Three Big Baddies of U.S.A.\Israel\Britain.

    Safe? Or safe from Islamists in particular? Perhaps you can explain to me what difference it makes to the dead person and his/her family that they were shot dead by an enraged driver or a stray bullet rather than an Islamic extremist?

    Well, no one knows where the shoe pinches but he who wears it. It makes no difference to the dead person, he's gone for good & we don't know where. The dead person's family has a natural grudge against the ideology called Islamic extremism rather than against a lone driver or shooter. It makes them justifiably angry that an ideology so demented & deformed some individuals that their loved one's life was brutally cut short in its name. In U.S.A., after 9\11, there was mass phobia & loss of tourism for some time, people lived in fear of death, for people living in Southern Philippines to Sudan, that fear is an everyday occurence & everyday danger.. For people in tiny Bali in Indonesia, tourism still hasn't recovered to pre attack levels(2 dastardly attacks in 2002 & 2005) & the standard of living for this tourism dependent little region's residents has gone down.

    And we can't see every problem as created due to Israel\United States\failure of Arab nationalism & its allies either coz they don't happen to be the common factor in many Islamist attacks & troubles.

    Anyway, I'm going to bed.  goodnight


    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »