Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages

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- cosmicdancer
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Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
OP - September 05, 2009, 11:35 AM

I was thinking of doing a video on this, but am too busy these days.

But I would like to suggest that someone with a Youtube account do it - it really would be an eye-opener for many Muslims and would really show how many of the great "Muslim" minds were actually doubters and freethinkers.

I would be happy to "mirror" the video too.

It is also something someone could easily do without revealing their identity or even that they are an ex-Muslim.

Perhaps we could all help by posting the names of "Muslim" freethinkers down the ages.
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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #1 - September 05, 2009, 11:40 AM

Let me start with these 3:

Al-Razi

Ibn al-Rawandi

Abu 'Ala' Al-Ma`arri
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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #2 - September 05, 2009, 11:46 AM

Omar Khayam
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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #3 - September 05, 2009, 11:49 AM

Quote from: 20yearstoolong on September 05, 2009, 11:46 AM
Omar Khayam

I always loved that quote where Omar Khayyam symbolises God as the potter and man as his clay pots and says of one with a defect:

"What! Did the Hand then of the Potter shake?"
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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #4 - September 05, 2009, 11:51 AM

My fav is the one I use at the bottom for my signature.
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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #5 - September 05, 2009, 01:01 PM

I am sorry, 20 years, maybe the English translation or something. Can you point out where I can read the Original Arabic one? SO I understand it better?

...
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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #6 - September 05, 2009, 01:01 PM

If only we had a neat place, such as a wiki where we could, for instance, write about these guys.

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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #7 - September 05, 2009, 05:41 PM

Quote from: RIBS on September 05, 2009, 01:01 PM
I am sorry, 20 years, maybe the English translation or something. Can you point out where I can read the Original Arabic one? SO I understand it better?

Original farsi.

http://fa.wikisource.org/wiki/%D8%B1%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%B9%DB%8C%D8%A7%D8%AA_%D8%AE%DB%8C%D8%A7%D9%85

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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #8 - September 05, 2009, 05:55 PM

I'll do a video on it.

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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #9 - September 05, 2009, 06:06 PM

Quote from: Tommy on September 05, 2009, 05:55 PM
I'll do a video on it.
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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #10 - September 05, 2009, 07:56 PM

In order for me to make the video, I need to know a bit of background info on the following people, as I never heard of any of them:

Al-Razi

Ibn al-Rawandi

Abu 'Ala' Al-Ma`arri

Omar Khayam

If you have any quotes, and a link where their accurate biography or autobiography is posted, post the link so I may make the video based on correct info. If it's in a language other than English, give me a translation.

Thank you.

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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #11 - September 05, 2009, 08:00 PM

The stuff on Omar Khayam can be found here:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_khayam

http://www.okonlife.com/
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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #12 - September 05, 2009, 08:04 PM

Thanks 20yearstoolong.

By the way, would you be interested in putting in a few words in my video? The thread is http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=6516.0

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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #13 - September 05, 2009, 08:06 PM

I found this on Al-Razi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Zakariya_al-Razi

Anyone who is more familiar with him, is that info. pretty accurate?

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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #14 - September 05, 2009, 08:08 PM

Quote from: Tommy on September 05, 2009, 08:04 PM
Thanks 20yearstoolong.

By the way, would you be interested in putting in a few words in my video? The thread is http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=6516.0

Anything in particular?
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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #15 - September 05, 2009, 08:11 PM

Well I posted a format in the thread. Basically, the video will serve as an encouragement for closest ex-Muslims to come out and for fence sitters to consider the ex-Muslim route. It'll be known as the 'Ex-Muslim Challenge" We're doing this by meshing in the words from already open ex-Muslims to show that it's okay to leave Islam.

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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #16 - September 05, 2009, 09:40 PM

Why not one of these titles:

The Murtad Challenge
The Zindik Challenge
The Kufr Challenge
The Munkir Challenge

Do all of these sound negative?

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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #17 - September 05, 2009, 09:44 PM

I think The Ex-Muslim Challenge has the same effect as The Murtad Challenge. Probably because they say the same thing lol

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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #18 - September 06, 2009, 06:58 AM

I heard that Sufi icon Jalaluddin Rumi initially wanted to be a cleric, but upon meeting his future BFF Shams Tabrizi, his thinking and understanding of this world completely changed. I would say he become more of a Deist/Agnostic who shunned religious chauvinism and talked more about love and harmony.

Also, the great Urdu poet Mirza Ghalib's eloquently dissed the clergy and talked about his disgust at religious belligerence and hypocrisy.

" The object of my worship lies beyond perception's reach;
For men who see, the Ka'aba is a compass, nothing more."

Though I dont know if we can consider his "unorthrodox" views as being those of an ex-muslim

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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #19 - September 06, 2009, 10:02 AM

Quote from: atheist.pk on September 06, 2009, 06:58 AM
I heard that Sufi icon Jalaluddin Rumi initially wanted to be a cleric, but upon meeting his future BFF Shams Tabrizi, his thinking and understanding of this world completely changed. I would say he become more of a Deist/Agnostic who shunned religious chauvinism and talked more about love and harmony.

Also, the great Urdu poet Mirza Ghalib's eloquently dissed the clergy and talked about his disgust at religious belligerence and hypocrisy.

" The object of my worship lies beyond perception's reach;
For men who see, the Ka'aba is a compass, nothing more."

Though I dont know if we can consider his "unorthrodox" views as being those of an ex-muslim

Yes I would say add Rumi and others...

There was also a group of "heretics" called the Ikhwanu-Safaa' who wrote scientific treaties.

There are others too - I meant to do a search, but got busy - will do in a bit.

But I think you should include all those who could come under the "Freethinker" banner.
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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #20 - September 06, 2009, 10:25 AM

Quote from: Hassan on September 06, 2009, 10:02 AM
Yes I would say add Rumi and others...

There was also a group of "heretics" called the Ikhwanu-Safaa' who wrote scientific treaties.

There are others too - I meant to do a search, but got busy - will do in a bit.

But I think you should include all those who could come under the "Freethinker" banner.

Was not Ibn Rushd/Averroes considered a heretic ?

From Wikipedia :

Quote
He has been described as the founding father of secular thought in Western Europe[2] and "one of the spiritual fathers of Europe."[3]

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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #21 - September 06, 2009, 10:32 AM

Quote from: Paloma on September 06, 2009, 10:25 AM

Was not Ibn Rushd/Averroes considered a heretic ?

Yes - many of the Muslim scientists, doctors, literati and philosophers were considered heretics by the religious.

Doesn't stop them producing them to show how great Islam is when it suits them tho lol
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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #22 - September 06, 2009, 10:36 AM

Quote from: Paloma on September 06, 2009, 10:25 AM

Was not Ibn Rushd/Averroes considered a heretic ?

From Wikipedia :

Not sure really. The line seems blurred. I was told that his Maliki fiqh texts are still used. His theology is certainly far from orthodox. He wrote a reply to Ghazali's "Incoherence of the philosophers" called "Incoherence of the incoherence". Although this later work wasn't taken seriously by the orthodox. the result of this can be seen today.
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Re: Muslim Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers through the Ages
Reply #23 - September 06, 2009, 10:51 AM

I do remember reading about other Muslims scientists like Ibn Sina saying very heretical things. I don't have any references to hand - but there is this article that mentions him and others like Al-Biruni and Ibn Haiyan...

(I know it is a very FFI-type site but, this is the whole problem with the debate around Islam - everyone is forced into extreme corners. But I think that makes it even more important that we make our voices heard and show everyone that one doesn't have to be an Muslim/Islam-hater to criticise it.)

http://www.islam-watch.org/SherKhan/golden_eggs_of_rotten_islam.htm
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