So was Jesus really crucified?

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So was Jesus really crucified?
OP - January 03, 2010, 08:46 AM

Muslims adamantly say no but provide no proof. And say Christians altered scriptures. Was the man actually crucified?
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Re: So was Jesus really crucified?
Reply #1 - January 03, 2010, 09:30 AM

Its like asking did Achilles really die in the Trojan war when Paris shot him with an arrow?

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Re: So was Jesus really crucified?
Reply #2 - January 03, 2010, 10:24 AM

Or whether Samson really lost his strength when he had his hair trimmed. So much time devoted to the details of myths.
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Re: So was Jesus really crucified?
Reply #3 - January 03, 2010, 10:25 AM

He was crucified but 'didn't die on the cross', not 'wasn't crucified'.

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Re: So was Jesus really crucified?
Reply #4 - January 03, 2010, 10:42 AM

Quote from: BlackDog on January 03, 2010, 08:46 AM
Muslims adamantly say no but provide no proof. And say Christians altered scriptures. Was the man actually crucified?

I dont think we even have proof to show that he even existed, let alone room to argue for the modus of his death

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Re: So was Jesus really crucified?
Reply #5 - January 03, 2010, 10:44 AM

Quote from: panoptic on January 03, 2010, 10:25 AM
He was crucified but 'didn't die on the cross', not 'wasn't crucified'.

Perky buns, how about reading your Qur'an before replying.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543288

Quote
Briefly, let me tell you that Allah Almighty says in the Qur?an,(And concerning their saying, 'We killed the Messiah Jesus son of Mary, Allah's Messenger.' They killed him not, nor crucified, but it appeared so to them. Indeed those who disagree concerning it are in doubt about it. They have no (true) knowledge about it except that they follow conjecture. Surely, they did not kill him. But Allah did take him up unto Himself. Allah is ever Mighty, Wise.)(An-Nisaa? 4:157-158)

Thus, according to Allah's testimony in the Qur'an, the crucifixion did not take place and Jesus was neither killed nor died on the cross.

So who was crucified instead?

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Re: So was Jesus really crucified?
Reply #6 - January 03, 2010, 10:47 AM

I dont know...but I'd think he was yelling
"How the Fuck did I get up here! What the hell! "

The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
-Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

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Re: So was Jesus really crucified?
Reply #7 - January 03, 2010, 10:48 AM

Quote from: kaiwai on January 03, 2010, 10:44 AM
Perky buns, how about reading your Qur'an before replying.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543288

So who was crucified instead?

Yes, it appeared so. He ascended to heaven before he died.

"...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
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Re: So was Jesus really crucified?
Reply #8 - January 03, 2010, 10:49 AM

Quote from: Homer on January 03, 2010, 10:47 AM
I dont know...but I'd think he was yelling
"How the Fuck did I get up here! What the hell! "

Or

"Geeze, that was one hell of a stag night" *looks both ways* "damn, I knew this wasn't going to end well when my mates asked to stop by a hardware store before having a heavy drinking session".

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Re: So was Jesus really crucified?
Reply #9 - January 03, 2010, 10:51 AM

"I know they said they'd get me hammered.....but this! "

The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
-Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

"Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags." -Ibl
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Re: So was Jesus really crucified?
Reply #10 - January 03, 2010, 11:17 AM

Quote from: BlackDog on January 03, 2010, 08:46 AM
Muslims adamantly say no but provide no proof. And say Christians altered scriptures. Was the man actually crucified?

Most modern scholars (historians of early Christianity) thinks that Jesus existed and was crucified. The same historical proofs which are used to argue for the historicity of Jesus is the is also used to argue that many of the elements described concerning Jesus life is historical and also the crucifixion.

One historian muslims like to quote is Bart D. Ehrman (an apostate of Christianity, agnostic now). If you look at 'muslimbychoice' at youtube's different historical documentaries (which by the way is illegal uploads) Bart D. Ehrman is a central figure used to back up the claim that the Christians altered the scriptures (and to spoil it all they really did so, but it was not an unussual allegation against the 'Christians'. Different groups (or sects) of Christians accused other groups (or sects) of Christians of doing this; Mani the 'seal of prophets' in Manichaeism accused the Jews and the Christians for altering their holy books (he even criticized Moses and Jesus for not writing their message down themselves, and so Mani did write his holy message down himself), different Latin and Greek Roman pagans accused the Christians of altering their scriptures and so forth). Now Ehrman is also an fervent defender of the historicity of Jesus and the crucifixion of Jesus.

Different opinions concerning the historicity of Jesus is introduced on this site: Historical Jesus Theories. Wikipedia's page on the crucifixion of Jesus is basicly presenting the majority of the scholars opinion.
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Re: So was Jesus really crucified?
Reply #11 - January 03, 2010, 11:19 AM

Quote from: Homer on January 03, 2010, 10:51 AM
"I know they said they'd get me hammered.....but this! "

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Re: So was Jesus really crucified?
Reply #12 - January 03, 2010, 11:42 AM

Quote from: kaiwai on January 03, 2010, 10:44 AM
Perky buns, how about reading your Qur'an before replying.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543288

So who was crucified instead?

Gawd. It even says the same in your link, now that I just read it.

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Re: So was Jesus really crucified?
Reply #13 - January 03, 2010, 10:54 PM

Quote from: Homer on January 03, 2010, 10:51 AM
"I know they said they'd get me hammered.....but this! "

You are fantastic.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.
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Re: So was Jesus really crucified?
Reply #14 - January 04, 2010, 12:39 AM

Quote from: panoptic on January 03, 2010, 11:42 AM
Gawd. It even says the same in your link, now that I just read it.

No it doesn't, you said this:

Quote
He was crucified but 'didn't die on the cross', not 'wasn't crucified'.

Meaning he was crucified but never died.

Where as the source I provided said the following:

Quote
the crucifixion did not take place and Jesus was neither killed nor died on the cross.

note the oh-so subtle difference?

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Re: So was Jesus really crucified?
Reply #15 - January 04, 2010, 10:24 PM

Jesus doesnt exist except in the Bible and Quran.
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Re: So was Jesus really crucified?
Reply #16 - January 05, 2010, 12:15 AM

And he exists in those who are ill of mind that believe in him, death be upon them. Ramen.

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Re: So was Jesus really crucified?
Reply #17 - January 05, 2010, 12:19 AM

Quote from: _truth_ on January 04, 2010, 10:24 PM
Jesus doesnt exist except in the Bible and Quran.

Nah there was sufficient evidence to suggest that there was really a historical Jesus.

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Re: So was Jesus really crucified?
Reply #18 - January 05, 2010, 12:26 AM

But no evidence to suggest there was a miracle casting son of a God Jesus.

We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

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Re: So was Jesus really crucified?
Reply #19 - January 05, 2010, 12:46 AM

Quote from: ExHindu on January 05, 2010, 12:26 AM
But no evidence to suggest there was a miracle casting son of a God Jesus.

Obviously... duh!!

"Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

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Re: So was Jesus really crucified?
Reply #20 - January 05, 2010, 12:48 AM

Of course Jesus existed. If the same standards of skepticism were used on every other historical figure then practically every character of the historical record doesn't exist either.

Sure, you can argue forever about the details of the man's life, perhaps nothing of what we know of him is correct. But someone like him did exist one way or the other.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.
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Re: So was Jesus really crucified?
Reply #21 - January 09, 2010, 11:50 AM

I believe Jesus existed, he was no different than Jim Jones and David Koresh, a cult leader. A self-proclaimed messiah who failed.

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