Chrislam

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Chrislam
OP - March 06, 2010, 11:53 PM

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/episodes/february-13-2009/chrislam/2236

The main priest drives a Hummer, that was of course paid for by the believers for whom he performed "miracles".

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Re: Chrislam
Reply #1 - March 07, 2010, 02:22 AM

Many Muslims would call them kaafirs and many other nasty words as well unfortunately. Seems weird to fuse 2 faiths together

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Re: Chrislam
Reply #2 - March 07, 2010, 02:24 AM

Quote from: Cool Canadian on March 07, 2010, 02:22 AM
Seems weird to fuse 2 faiths together

Why? We've been doing it for millenia. Islam itself is a fusion of christian heresy, judaic dogma and arabian pagan tribal culture. Most of the native Islam present in south asia and south east asia is a syncretic form of hindu paganism combined with Islamic elements. The dogmatic, puritanical islam you're used to is the exception, not the norm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncretism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Din-i-Ilahi

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Re: Chrislam
Reply #3 - March 07, 2010, 03:33 AM

No akhi, Islam is perfect, it came down from the heavens and Allah (swt) sent down Muhammad (saw) as a messenger, Islam is free of corruption!

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Re: Chrislam
Reply #4 - March 07, 2010, 03:52 AM

Iblis is correct, which points to two things

1: its all made up
2: in 600 years we are all going to be bitching about what a pain in the ass the chrislims are.

The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
-Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

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Re: Chrislam
Reply #5 - March 07, 2010, 03:58 AM

Well on point 2 I would say that syncretic manifestations of religion tend to be very socially inclusive, spiritually inclined, apolitical and theologically flexible. They are at the core largely undogmatic, native version of Islam in places like Indonesia and Bangladesh are so diluted with pagan, animist and hindu/buddhist cultural elements that it could be argued they weren't very much Islam at all. So Chrislam wouldn't be such a pain in the ass, because being a syncretic religion it's dogma would be diluted and benign.

They key problem is not religious superstition itself. The problem is literalistic and dogmatic religion and syncretic religions tend to nullify dogma and literalism.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
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Re: Chrislam
Reply #6 - March 07, 2010, 05:23 AM

Quote
Dr. ISHAK AKINTOLA (Lagos State University): The Bible, you know, concentrates on teachings of love, that’s what Jesus says in Mathew chapter 5, that you love your neighbor and you even love your enemy. Now you find the Quran saying exactly the same thing.

DE SAM LAZARO: The Quran says the same thing?

Dr. AKINTOLA: Yes, yes. “Pay evil back with goodness.” If you do that, those who used to hate you before, those who are your enemies before will so become your friend. So the Bible [and] Quran say the same thing.

Uh huh.

Quote
Dr. MARA LEICHTMAN (Assistant Professor, Department of Anthropology, Michigan State University): According to Islam, the Prophet Muhammad was the final prophet but certainly not the only prophet, and they believe in Jesus and all of the other prophets of Judaism and Christianity that came before the Prophet Muhammad. So it’s nothing foreign to a Muslim to believe in Jesus, to pray to Jesus or some of the other prophets, to light a candle for the Virgin Mary, for example, as I’ve experienced Muslims do in churches in Senegal. They believe, in some cases in Africa and various African counties, in what I call “spirituality without boundaries.”

It's nothing foreign to a Muslim? A Muslim where? In some sect in Senegal? Riiiiight. Pick up a Quran sometime and read it. Most would find it pretty heretical to pray to Jesus even though religious, spiritual, and cultural practices mix a lot in Africa.

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Re: Chrislam
Reply #7 - March 07, 2010, 05:31 AM

Muslims have been praying to sufi saints and commiting unspeakable heresies for centuries now. So it isn't really foreign to Muslims at all.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
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Re: Chrislam
Reply #8 - March 07, 2010, 07:36 AM

Yeah, I know that. My people back home pray to our ancestors and make sacrifices to them, but they're devout Muslims . And Im not talking about all sorts of heresies. Muslims will commit some heresies or sins, but will be opposed to others. I just don't like how she's trying to pass off praying to Jesus as a normal thing most Muslims do, as if its on par with believing in Mohammed.

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Re: Chrislam
Reply #9 - March 07, 2010, 07:41 AM

Where is 'back home' for you? That's similar to a lot of sufi south asian traditions too. But yeah, obviously there are certain types of heresies muslims won't bite. But you never know, people can believe all sorts of weird shit.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
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Re: Chrislam
Reply #10 - March 07, 2010, 07:58 AM

Back home for me is Ghana. I thought ancestor worship was mainly an African thing, didnt know it happened in SE Asia too. Although, Sufis are heretics around there arent they? Stuff like that and voodoo wouldnt really be heretical in Africa- at least not West Africa. I would be less surprised if these Chrislamists, Chrislamustians, whatthehellevertheyare worshipped ancestors then if they all came to a consensus on the Is Jesus God or Not issue. But as they seem to mesh all sorts of things, they probably have their individual beliefs about it. Its interesting though, how she says that Muslims would have no problem deifying Jesus, but not that x-tians would not have a problem with seeing him as just a man, like its the Muslims who must conform to the X-tian beliefs. For some reason, Im getting defensive.

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Re: Chrislam
Reply #11 - March 07, 2010, 08:18 AM

I guess ancestor worship isn't exactly what south asians do. Its more "pir" worship. Pir is just a term for holy-man. There are these shrines for sufi saints all over south asia and the people that go there are basically worshipping them. In Bangladesh people go to the sufi shrines asking the spirit of the saint to intervene on their behalfs and praying directly to them.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
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Re: Chrislam
Reply #12 - March 07, 2010, 10:07 AM

This guy (who created "The Ripple Effect" video) believes he is "prince Michael" the son of God who was sent into the body of John Anthony Hill. I suspect this idea came about from his initials He claims he is the same conscious entity that occupied Jesus over 2000 years ago and that he is here for the last time, and that when he "sheds his mortal body" the rapture will begin.

http://jahtruth.net/wayad.htm

He also tries to fuse Christianity and Islam together by pointing out the "little misunderstandings" on Muhammad's part because he didn't understand what he was being told - which is bollocks considering Muhammad was supposed to be reciting word for word what he was told and not his own interpretation of the words. Although we all know that he was giving his interpretation of the words, but that the words came from other people.

Anyway, this guy is a total cock - as his video implies (watch it if you haven't seen it).

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Re: Chrislam
Reply #13 - March 07, 2010, 09:33 PM

Oh, the disdain and arrogance with which *real* Muslims would look down upon the Chrislims

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Re: Chrislam
Reply #14 - March 07, 2010, 10:22 PM

I meant to say book/read not video/watch.

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Re: Chrislam
Reply #15 - March 07, 2010, 10:35 PM

The novelty will wear off. Anyway I believe as time progresses, religiosity will decrease and we will see more and more people adopt a more rational world views i.e. agnosticism, atheism, freethinking.

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Re: Chrislam
Reply #16 - March 08, 2010, 08:30 AM

Quote from: Heyjustlooking on March 07, 2010, 10:35 PM
The novelty will wear off. Anyway I believe as time progresses, religiosity will decrease and we will see more and more people adopt a more rational world views i.e. agnosticism, atheism, freethinking.

That's what I used to think, but it seems that even if you present a very religious person with a mountain of evidence showing their belief is wrong they will ignore it.

There's something in our evolutionary history that made us more successful by being afraid of things to the point that you even fear things that do not exist.

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Re: Chrislam
Reply #17 - March 08, 2010, 08:55 PM

Quote from: TheRationalizer on March 08, 2010, 08:30 AM
That's what I used to think, but it seems that even if you present a very religious person with a mountain of evidence showing their belief is wrong they will ignore it.

There's something in our evolutionary history that made us more successful by being afraid of things to the point that you even fear things that do not exist.

Ye I think you are right. Do you think they fear the fact they have no guidance in life if they stopped believing amongst other things?

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Re: Chrislam
Reply #18 - March 08, 2010, 09:07 PM

Quote from: Heyjustlooking on March 08, 2010, 08:55 PM
Ye I think you are right. Do you think they fear the fact they have no guidance in life if they stopped believing amongst other things?

My biggest fear was "What do I do now?" Before I KNEW what I should be doing even if I failed at it every day, not knowing was a horrible idea. I got used to it though

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Re: Chrislam
Reply #19 - March 08, 2010, 09:21 PM

Ye I can empathise with that feeling too, you get used to it though as you said. I think it is a beautiful concept that we may never know everything because it always leaves that wonder in our minds of what's beyond what we can observe and so on.

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Re: Chrislam
Reply #20 - March 09, 2010, 07:21 AM

Quote from: Iblis on March 07, 2010, 03:58 AM

They key problem is not religious superstition itself. The problem is literalistic and dogmatic religion and syncretic religions tend to nullify dogma and literalism.

mmm, I tend to disagree to a point. Superstition is the key problem from which the dogma, literalism, ect get their power. Pagans burned people in wickermen and killed witches too.
Irrational belief leads to irrational actions, no matter what.

Also, In this case, a combination of christianity and islam, really does nothing for anyone except christians and muslims. I would be rather sure it is not overly friendly to the non-people o' da book.

The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
-Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

"Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags." -Ibl
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Re: Chrislam
Reply #21 - March 09, 2010, 08:45 AM

Quote from: Homer on March 09, 2010, 07:21 AM
Also, In this case, a combination of christianity and islam, really does nothing for anyone except christians and muslims.

Well, my enemy's enemy is my friend (for a while at least) - and we all know those zionist jew pig apes are trying to take over the world etc ad nauseum.

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Re: Chrislam
Reply #22 - March 09, 2010, 09:43 AM

ya know...in some ways they did.

what i mean is, isnt it amazing that almost half the people on earth in 2010, worship the tribal god of some long ago Hebrew fruit cakes

The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
-Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

"Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags." -Ibl
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Re: Chrislam
Reply #23 - March 09, 2010, 09:51 AM

Quote from: Homer on March 09, 2010, 09:43 AM
ya know...in some ways they did.

what i mean is, isnt it amazing that almost half the people on earth in 2010, worship the tribal god of some long ago Hebrew fruit cakes

Then there is the creator of the Earth springing from a lotus flower which grew out of Vishnu's navel or something, it's amazing anyone believes ANY of this shit.

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Re: Chrislam
Reply #24 - March 10, 2010, 06:40 AM

I've always, honestly, had a hard time understanding racist anti semitic groups that were christian (like the KKK).
I mean, how did they rectify their racism with worshiping a Jewish guy?

The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
-Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

"Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags." -Ibl
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Re: Chrislam
Reply #25 - March 10, 2010, 06:54 AM

Quote from: Homer on March 10, 2010, 06:40 AM
I've always, honestly, had a hard time understanding racist anti semitic groups that were christian (like the KKK).
I mean, how did they rectify their racism with worshiping a Jewish guy?

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
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Re: Chrislam
Reply #26 - March 10, 2010, 07:07 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNeq2Utm0nU

The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
-Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

"Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags." -Ibl
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