Hello all,
sorry for not a very positive title. I've been debating one muslim girl on her own blog about women's issues mainly but today her reply simply knocked me down flat...
I was trying to ask questions rather than give my own opinion of how islam is unfair to women (to say the least) and point certain inequalities for her to consider. It's not that I'm upset that she didn't admit that I'm right, but rather the fact that she is quoting all those nice verses, hadiths about how Mo commanded men to treat women nicely etc to which I can bring as much outrageous and misogynistics verses and hadiths completely contradicting her claims. We would be debating that all year.
The girl is 19 and she converted not so long time ago. I don't know for some reason it was so difficult for me to read what she wrote:
about divorce:
"Well, I think a woman would only give her mahr back (khula) if she doesn’t really have a reason to divorce except for the fact that she just doesn’t love him or something. If she has a real, good reason, like that her husband abuses her or doesn’t provide for her, or doesn’t want to sleep with her, she can go to the court, and the judge will end the marriage, without her having to give back her dowry.
You are right that the man always has the right to initiate divorce (talaq), but that also leaves him with a big responsibility. If he says he wants to divorce her 3 times, the couple cannot be reconciled, except when the wife would marry someone else, then get divorced, and then marry her ex-husband again.
So he really has to think carefully.
I can’t tell you about the fairness of it all, but I find that in general, Islam is fair. And in Christianity for example, couples were not allowed to divorce. Is that better then? That you have to stay together even if you make each other really unhappy? In Judaism, a man can leave his wife over “a bowl of chicken soup”. If her husband leaves her without divorcing her, she’s forced to stay like that forever, married but alone. In Islam, if her husband doesn’t come back to provide for her and to fulfill her needs, the woman can go to court and divorce him. I saw in class that even today in the Middle East, Christian or Jewish women convert to Islam just to get a divorce!
"64:14 Sahih International
O you who have believed, indeed, among your wives and your children are enemies to you, so beware of them. But if you pardon and overlook and forgive – then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
This verse doesn’t say that all wives are enemies to their husband. Did you look up the tafseer for this verse? Maybe it refers to the fact that men converted to Islam while their family was still of the old faith, and they wished him bad things for converting? It’s just a guess, best to look up the tafseer"
"I very much think Khadija was an exception to the rule. It is a fact that Arabs buried their baby daughters alive before Islam came, and that women had the same status as cattle, or even lower. Islam gave dignity and honor to women, and forbade parents to bury their daughters.(I’m sorry if you don’t see it that way but I do ) The Prophet (p.b.u.h) said that whoever had daughters and raised them well and with kindness would enter Paradise."
and the final blow: :(
"I’m afraid I don’t agree with you about what you said about that a lot of things we see today are a result of what’s in the Quran and the hadith. Like I said in my previous post, women in the early Islamic period participated in society, were teachers (taught men!), and were respected and honored. Abusing women is NOT allowed in Islam, trying to keep them a prisoner in their homes without any rights is NOT Islam. I think a lot of what we see today is based on culture, and not on the teachings of Islam.
You must also not forget that Islam is not just a lifestyle that you can scrutinize. It’s also a religion, a connection between God and humanity. I believe in God, and that He is always fair. I believe that he helped women and gave them dignity when He told them to cover and dress modestly, and not to spend too much time in the company of strange men. I live in the West, in a non-muslim country where men and women go out and mix daily, and there are a lot of times that I find myself thinking “Alhamdulillah that I am Muslim”. I strongly feel that a lot of men just don’t respect women anymore, and that women are constantly trying to please men with their looks and their bodies. Is that not oppression or slavery? A woman has to show off her body in order to get men interested. Our whole media industry is based on how women can please men. I found peace and dignity in Islam, and I no longer feel I have to have a perfect body, the perfect looks, or the perfect weight to get a man. I’m happy with my decision. I respect and accept that you don’t see it that way, and that you might have other thoughts about women liberation, but really I don’t regret anything. I’m answering your questions because I don’t want to leave you in doubt or confusion, but they don’t make me rethink my decision."
sorry for that, but i just really needed to vent and put it out there... thanks god (oops!) for this forum
Topic: Today I died inside a little bit (need to vent)