Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Gaza assault
by zeca
November 27, 2024, 07:13 PM

What music are you listen...
by zeca
November 24, 2024, 06:05 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
November 22, 2024, 02:51 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
November 22, 2024, 06:45 AM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
November 21, 2024, 05:07 PM

New Britain
November 20, 2024, 05:41 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
November 20, 2024, 09:02 AM

Marcion and the introduct...
by zeca
November 19, 2024, 11:36 PM

Dutch elections
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 10:11 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 08:46 PM

AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
November 07, 2024, 09:56 AM

The origins of Judaism
by zeca
November 02, 2024, 12:56 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Hanna Rosin: New data on the rise of women

 (Read 3433 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Hanna Rosin: New data on the rise of women
     OP - December 17, 2010, 12:43 PM

    bit sexist, no?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZymFMmpOa0

    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: Hanna Rosin: New data on the rise of women
     Reply #1 - December 17, 2010, 03:46 PM

    Not sure about sexist, although her message appears somewhat confused in that I'm not quite sure what she's trying to convey. Her primary theme seems to be that women are already doing very well in developed nations, and that even in parts of the developing world they are on the march. The primary indicators she uses for the developed world relate to women in the workforce, and how well educated they are. She also uses some pop culture references. In the developing world, she uses other indicators such attitudes toward female offspring. This is where things start getting a little confusing for me. She doesn't really go into detail about why cultural attitudes towards female offspring might be changing in the developing world, for example. Also, the pop culture references for women in the developed world were perhaps overly simplistic. Jean Kilbourne's Killing Us Softly delves a little more deeply into the way women are portrayed in the media (specifically in advertising):

    http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-1993368502337678412

    Her congratulatory attitude towards women's achievements is positive, yet she ponders too much on the failings of men without offering any ideas as to why they are having trouble adapting and how this is actually a terrible thing for both sexes. For example, in looking at the workforce graphs she focused on how women have become more successful, without recognising that we should be seeking balance rather than an inversion of previous trends. IIRC, in the UK one in three young women are assaulted at some point by their partner. In areas of economic deprivation women are something like six times more likely to be the victim of violence. The potential for a generation of frustrated, disenfranchised young men is unlikely to lead to an increase in women's security.

    Her points about the recession might not translate as well to European welfare states, either. There were estimations that two thirds of the UK Gov spending cuts would directly affect women, adding to the fact that women rely more heavily on benefits which are also being cut. Also, hundreds of thousands of public sector jobs are being shed, around two thirds of which is comprised of women. Even if these women find work in the private sector, they will see an average gender pay gap increase of 10%. If Rosin wants to talk about places outside of the US then she shouldn't ignore what's happening in places like the UK to put a positive spin on the financial crisis. Recessions are generally bad for the working class, regardless of sex.

    Having painted a rosy picture of women's progress whilst seemingly deriding the failures of men, she then mentions glass ceilings (which are generally used in the context of remuneration so I assume she's talking about wage inequality). What was the point in bringing up the problems of men if you are trying to make a point about the gender pay divide? Rosin then says something about a bridge which I couldn't fully grasp and clapping ensued.

    Deeply unsatisfying.

    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Hanna Rosin: New data on the rise of women
     Reply #2 - December 17, 2010, 05:01 PM

    It is sad that underlying her whole thesis is the assumption that one's earning power and economic value is the final measure of one's self-worth.

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Hanna Rosin: New data on the rise of women
     Reply #3 - December 17, 2010, 05:15 PM

    It is sad that underlying her whole thesis is the assumption that one's earning power and economic value is the final measure of one's self-worth.

    Most definitely, although women will inevitably begin grappling with the same reality men have for some time. Perhaps the achievement of equality in this regard will help both sexes realise similar ambitions, working together to change the fundamentals of our society.

    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Hanna Rosin: New data on the rise of women
     Reply #4 - December 17, 2010, 05:17 PM

    i feel like she's just saying lets accept this reversal of power and simply deal with this in reverse rather than saying...let's figure out whats wrong, how to fix it. it's almost a gloating tone.

    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: Hanna Rosin: New data on the rise of women
     Reply #5 - December 17, 2010, 05:22 PM

    Most definitely, although women will inevitably begin grappling with the same reality men have for some time. Perhaps the achievement of equality in this regard will help both sexes realise similar ambitions, working together to change the fundamentals of our society.


    Yes, especially considering that it's not far fetched to say that the modern economic world is a 'male' model and therefore, she is celebrating the 'female' becoming more male than the male himself.

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Hanna Rosin: New data on the rise of women
     Reply #6 - December 17, 2010, 05:31 PM

    Yes, especially considering that it's not far fetched to say that the modern economic world is a 'male' model and therefore, she is celebrating the 'female' becoming more male than the male himself.

    Yes, it's interesting that something similar is mentioned in the video I posted in my first post. That men are beginning to be objectified more often within the media, and that we shouldn't be seeking an equality of exploitation but a change in the way we all think about ourselves and each other.

    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Hanna Rosin: New data on the rise of women
     Reply #7 - December 17, 2010, 06:15 PM

    did she say we should all change how we think about eachother? The message i got was that things are changing and women want different things. The whole thing about men being the new ball and chain only made her shudder due to the irony of the situation (women previously being in that position, now discussing males in a similar manner) rather than finding this mindset alarming. Even if women were oppressed, i hardly think its a good solution to now view the other sex in such a way.

    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: Hanna Rosin: New data on the rise of women
     Reply #8 - December 17, 2010, 06:19 PM

    You're right eph, discrimination of any sort is awful - even if one self-righteously believes they can do so.

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Hanna Rosin: New data on the rise of women
     Reply #9 - December 17, 2010, 07:00 PM

    did she say we should all change how we think about eachother? The message i got was that things are changing and women want different things. The whole thing about men being the new ball and chain only made her shudder due to the irony of the situation (women previously being in that position, now discussing males in a similar manner) rather than finding this mindset alarming. Even if women were oppressed, i hardly think its a good solution to now view the other sex in such a way.

    I was referring to the video link I posted.

    The point I was making to z10 is that women are in a position to drive change in the way not only women but also the way men view / feel about themselves. As women have been historically oppressed by patriarchy many have a deep understanding of the dynamics of exploitation and a keen understanding of the search for self-worth. In my opinion, through this struggle women are in a unique position to not only emancipate themselves, but also men by showing them a better way - rather than shunning men or actively seeking to make them feel undermined in a game of one-upmanship. Obviously, many men's attitudes need to change and this can be achieved through positive means, by making men feel solidarity with women. We've been pitted against one another for far too long and the divisions are manifestly false (and often grounded in religious dogma).

    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »