What is the point to life?

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- Ephemeral
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Re: What is the point to life?
Reply #30 - February 07, 2011, 03:38 PM

its understandable.

I made a flippant, concise comment which i didnt expect to be called out upon.

"If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
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Re: What is the point to life?
Reply #31 - February 07, 2011, 03:42 PM

Quote
yes, i do. in fact, i used to think that all religions included the notion of immortality, but i then found out that were exceptions.

The fact that there are many of us, religious or not, who don't believe in an after-life has no bearing on the point that those who do claim its existence and believe it might be strongly inclined to do so as a sort of coping mechanism, among other reasons (none of which based on objective evidence for its existence).

That's why I brought up the example of the terminally-ill. What would you think is the more comforting, truly believing in a notion of a 'next life', or just resting your hopes on "scientists discovering an antidote at the last minute"?

Blind faith in an after-life can itself be part of the "make-believe" "survival instincts" you speak of.

Against the ruin of the world, there
is only one defense: the creative act.

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Re: What is the point to life?
Reply #32 - February 07, 2011, 03:55 PM

@ arx

Quote
That's why I brought up the example of the terminally-ill. What would you think is the more comforting, truly believing in a notion of a 'next life', or just resting your hopes on "scientists discovering an antidote at the last minute"?

Of course, I choose the latter. This reality is all I really know. I can never be *as sure* regarding the other side or if there is an “other” side. Give me the cutting edge medicine, now!

Quote
Blind faith in an after-life can itself be part of the "make-believe" "survival instincts" you speak of.

I never said anything that even implied that I disagreed with this. I only said that no one needs blind faith when we are already programmed to be so capable of *blocking* the notion of death so persistently.

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: What is the point to life?
Reply #33 - February 07, 2011, 04:11 PM

Quote
no one needs blind faith when we are already programmed to be so capable of *blocking* the notion of death so persistently.

There's a contradiction here with your reply to a previous question:

Quote
Quote
Do you not think that such a "make-belief" can be shaken under many different circumstances?

Yes, of course.

Against the ruin of the world, there
is only one defense: the creative act.

-- Kenneth Rexroth
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Re: What is the point to life?
Reply #34 - February 07, 2011, 04:19 PM

EDIT:

explain the contradition.

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: What is the point to life?
Reply #35 - February 07, 2011, 04:22 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 07, 2011, 03:55 PM
I never said anything that even implied that I disagreed with this. I only said that no one needs blind faith when we are already programmed to be so capable of *blocking* the notion of death so persistently.

What makes you think we block out the notion of death - I certainly dont, its one of the saddest yet most inevitable facts we live with. I live like a terminally ill patient, and acknowledge that each day might be my last.

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Re: What is the point to life?
Reply #36 - February 07, 2011, 04:33 PM

Quote
What makes you think we block out the notion of death - I certainly dont, its one of the saddest yet most inevitable facts we live with. I live like a terminally ill patient, and acknowledge that each day might be my last.

are you saying that your moment of death is present in your thoughts all the time? yes/no?

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: What is the point to life?
Reply #37 - February 07, 2011, 04:35 PM

I was indeed referring to what you dubbed as survival instinct, initially defining it as "what enables a make believe that this dark hour, although certain, is scheduled in the distant future, so far away as to be irrelevant anyway", after which I countered with those, such as the terminally ill, whose dark hour ceases to become so irrelevant as they might be aware of the very real probability of their impending death.

So I asked, and you agreed, that this "instinct" can be shaken.

Then you repeat the claim that it is "so capable of blocking the notion of death so persistently" that "no one needs blind faith".

Against the ruin of the world, there
is only one defense: the creative act.

-- Kenneth Rexroth
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Re: What is the point to life?
Reply #38 - February 07, 2011, 04:41 PM

@ isalme

would you be motivated in building something if you knew it will be exterminated? In any case, that's what I understood from the OP, read it again.

I basically told him: yes, our lives will end, but you can always do what most healthy individuals do and live as if death will come after an eternity of living. It seems to me that the underlying reason the OP might think that life is pointless is that he is already looking at the exit sign.

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: What is the point to life?
Reply #39 - February 07, 2011, 04:47 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 07, 2011, 04:33 PM
are you saying that your moment of death is present in your thoughts all the time? yes/no?

no

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Re: What is the point to life?
Reply #40 - February 07, 2011, 04:50 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 07, 2011, 04:41 PM
@ isalme

would you be motivated in building something if you knew it will be exterminated?

depends on timescale - if they were going to destroy it immediately then no. If I would gain additional pleasure from it during the time that I might stay alive, then yes.

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Re: What is the point to life?
Reply #41 - February 07, 2011, 04:54 PM

Quote from: arX on February 07, 2011, 04:35 PM
I was indeed referring to what you dubbed as survival instinct, initially defining it as "what enables a make believe that this dark hour, although certain, is scheduled in the distant future, so far away as to be irrelevant anyway", after which I countered with those, such as the terminally ill, whose dark hour ceases to become so irrelevant as they might be aware of the very real probability of their impending death.

So I asked, and you agreed, that this "instinct" can be shaken.

Then you repeat the claim that it is "so capable of blocking the notion of death so persistently" that "no one needs blind faith".

I do think that circumstances are different. A normal person, a depressed old man, a terminally-ill patient, a warrior left behind in the field to fight, alone, a hundred opponents, a swimmer taken by crazy unpredicatble currents to the open ocean are all different cases, but they are all still alike in the sense that what keeps them ticking is their belief that *their hour* can be (perpetually) postponed. Depending on each individual case, however, such a survival mechanism can just fail at some point.

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: What is the point to life?
Reply #42 - February 07, 2011, 04:57 PM

You exist because your parents made you, and they because their parents made them. Our complexity exists because a parent makes imperfect variations of itself, they vary their design.

You are merely carrying a design, if you have kids you will pass it on and ensure the welfare of those offspring then you will have served your purpose. Everything beyond that is free time to do with as you will, have a good time, laugh a lot, cry a little, and make sure you love and are loved.

What more does one need?

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
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Re: What is the point to life?
Reply #43 - February 09, 2011, 01:33 PM

I think to make more sense of the answer to this you must first shift from the homo-sapien-centric point of view when you ask the question.
Imagine the world,the universe without beings with the auto-cognitive capacity that humans have. Imagine nature doing everything it is doing right now whether on this planet or amongst the stars and red dwarves and all the other mind-blowing stuff she gets up to but with one element missing.You.
That is death. But real death would be never havng been able to witness it at all. Consciousness is just nature admiring herself in the mirror.

I like how Dawkins describes it.
' We know what it is like to be dead becuase we were dead for billions of years before we were born .
But presently our eyes have opened and we are allowed the privilege of seeing all the wonders in the universe for a few short decades before having to close our eyes again'

I think it is natural to feel sad that we have to stop experiencing this but what would make it even sadder is if we didnt appreciate the journey as we went through it. Like obnoxious children on the bus who miss all the beautiful scenery during the drive becuase they are too busy moaning ' are we there yet!! '

According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
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Re: What is the point to life?
Reply #44 - February 09, 2011, 01:39 PM

Quote from: mathmadx on February 07, 2011, 01:06 PM
Well, nesrin, and all the others who are wrestling with this question: You and I alike know very well that this life is ultimately void of any meaning..

i don't agree.. this life is meaningful through ACTIONS.. take no action, then it is void of meaning, only through the actions we take do we create meaning , and sometimes through our own actions, we create meaning for others as well..
hence shine as bright as you for as long as you can!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV9vdUjuWxc
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Re: What is the point to life?
Reply #45 - February 09, 2011, 04:51 PM

Quote from: Mutha Kuffar on February 09, 2011, 01:33 PM
I think to make more sense of the answer to this you must first shift from the homo-sapien-centric point of view when you ask the question.
Imagine the world,the universe without beings with the auto-cognitive capacity that humans have. Imagine nature doing everything it is doing right now whether on this planet or amongst the stars and red dwarves and all the other mind-blowing stuff she gets up to but with one element missing.You.
That is death. But real death would be never havng been able to witness it at all. Consciousness is just nature admiring herself in the mirror.

I like how Dawkins describes it.
' We know what it is like to be dead becuase we were dead for billions of years before we were born .
But presently our eyes have opened and we are allowed the privilege of seeing all the wonders in the universe for a few short decades before having to close our eyes again'

I think it is natural to feel sad that we have to stop experiencing this but what would make it even sadder is if we didnt appreciate the journey as we went through it. Like obnoxious children on the bus who miss all the beautiful scenery during the drive becuase they are too busy moaning ' are we there yet!! '

+1
Life is a journey, not a destination.

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