Best arguments for secularizing Islam

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- whyabadi
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Re: Best arguments for secularizing Islam
Reply #30 - August 31, 2010, 07:16 PM

Quote from: Aziz on August 31, 2010, 06:02 PM
Hey whyabadi, welcome. Pls make an intro thread.

Where are my manners!

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- Lilyesque
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Re: Best arguments for secularizing Islam
Reply #31 - August 31, 2010, 08:21 PM

Quote from: Julien on August 31, 2010, 07:08 PM
I don't think so; if there are some wrong interpretations it is due to the imperfection of the people or due to misguidance.

Do you think that it should be interpreted literally?
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Re: Best arguments for secularizing Islam
Reply #32 - August 31, 2010, 08:24 PM

Thers allways something that bugged me.

If tehre is something written, it can allways be interpreted. Theres no way around it. So... if got wanted us to follow his exact word, why did he give us the means to interpret his word? I mean... its not like ANY religious text is and easy read... mostly boring, but never easy. Why give us free will and creativity, if we would misuse it to misinterpret his word?!

"We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves." - from Goethes Faust
"Only the wisest and the stupidest men never change." - Confuzios
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Re: Best arguments for secularizing Islam
Reply #33 - August 31, 2010, 08:28 PM

Quote from: Lilyesque on August 31, 2010, 08:21 PM
Do you think that it should be interpreted literally?

I am sorry, what do you mean exactly? the Quran? if yes, there are different levels of interpretations, from the very literalists like the salafis to the sufis. Though you may found sometimes some common interpretations. All the sufis are not some kind hippies as many use to think.
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Re: Best arguments for secularizing Islam
Reply #34 - August 31, 2010, 08:30 PM

Quote from: DigDeep on August 31, 2010, 08:24 PM
Thers allways something that bugged me.

If tehre is something written, it can allways be interpreted. Theres no way around it. So... if got wanted us to follow his exact word, why did he give us the means to interpret his word? I mean... its not like ANY religious text is and easy read... mostly boring, but never easy. Why give us free will and creativity, if we would misuse it to misinterpret his word?!

Because otherwise we would all go to heaven and that would be terribly unfair.

"Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny." - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
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Re: Best arguments for secularizing Islam
Reply #35 - August 31, 2010, 08:33 PM

So, basicly, its another point on the God-is-a-Dick list. And Mohammed (WTF) is too... (like all prophets)

God-is-a-dick: 123985739573849493 points. God-is-nice: 0 points

"We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves." - from Goethes Faust
"Only the wisest and the stupidest men never change." - Confuzios
"there is no religion of peace, only people who are peaceful while being religious."
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Re: Best arguments for secularizing Islam
Reply #36 - August 31, 2010, 08:40 PM

Quote from: Julien on August 31, 2010, 08:28 PM
I am sorry, what do you mean exactly? the Quran? if yes, there are different levels of interpretations, from the very literalists like the salafis to the sufis. Though you may found sometimes some common interpretations. All the sufis are not some kind hippies as many use to think.

It sounds as if even you don't know the way to interpret it truthfully to what god wanted.
- whyabadi
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Re: Best arguments for secularizing Islam
Reply #37 - August 31, 2010, 08:45 PM

I have always believed that God's biggest mistake was...talking to us in the first place.

"It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not."
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- GodIsNotGreat
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Re: Best arguments for secularizing Islam
Reply #38 - August 31, 2010, 08:50 PM

Quote from: whyabadi on August 31, 2010, 08:45 PM
I have always believed that God's biggest mistake was...talking to us in the first place.

It's funny how an omnipotent god who's capable of creating black holes, galaxies and universes, his primary means of communicating with us is by putting voices into the heads of people.

19:46 <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

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Re: Best arguments for secularizing Islam
Reply #39 - January 30, 2011, 11:22 PM

Quote from: whyabadi on August 31, 2010, 08:45 PM
I have always believed that God's biggest mistake was...talking to us in the first place.

Ameen!
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Re: Best arguments for secularizing Islam
Reply #40 - January 31, 2011, 12:02 AM

I think (sunni) Islam has become to clergy related nowadays, I remember reading about how the 4 Imams were imprisoned by the rulers of that time for their stance against the establishment esp. Imam Abu Hanifa but nowadays it seems like the sunni clerics are no different to any other elitist clergy, we see that in most muslim countries esp. in Saudi where the clergy seem to suck up to the monarch so they can impose their will on the people.

This is what led me to start questioning Islam, I was talking to a (salafi minded) muslim guy over the internet about a future 'islamic state' I had a deluded vision of it being an Al-Andalus society where culture, science and tolerance prosper and that the ruler would be of a military background as I believed traditionally emirs/sultans/caliphs were such men but he said I was wrong in all my views and that the protectors of a state must be the ulama who "enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil" ie impose shariah law. It was from him I learnt about the apostasy hadith and other niceties, he told me that the military should be under the direct command of the ulama as they know when jihad is fard that really made me we disagreed on the idea of a shura type parliament he said Musa, Isa or Mo weren't elected so such a system wasn't needed today He even pointed to a verse of the Quran about most of the people being wrong or something thus democracy not being allowed. Secularism was "turning your back on Allah"

That was the 1st time I spoke to a muslim about such issues (he was really polite and kind unlike most who accuse you of being jahil) and is when I thought to myself that maybe the criticisms made against Islam could actually be valid. After that becoming an exxie was only a matter of time
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Re: Best arguments for secularizing Islam
Reply #41 - January 31, 2011, 12:18 AM

You should hook up with him again & tell him about your thoughts now

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- yeezevee
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Re: Best arguments for secularizing Islam
Reply #42 - January 31, 2011, 12:21 AM

Quote from: Aphrodite on January 31, 2011, 12:02 AM

.....That was the 1st time I spoke to a muslim about such issues (he was really polite and kind unlike most who accuse you of being jahil) and is when I thought to myself that maybe the criticisms made against Islam could actually be valid. After that becoming an exxie was only a matter of time

The works of Satan., it never goes away. Women are irresistible creatures for Satan., their minds are the worshop satan

Quote
002.036: But the Shaitan made them both fall from it, and caused them to depart from that (state) in which they were; and We said: Get forth, some of you being the enemies of others, and there is for you in the earth an abode and a provision for a time.

003.155: (As for) those of you who turned back on the day when the two armies met, only the Shaitan sought to cause them to make a slip on account of some deeds they had done, and certainly Allah has pardoned them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Forbearing.

So repent., for you also there is time to get Pardon from allah..

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the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Re: Best arguments for secularizing Islam
Reply #43 - January 31, 2011, 12:33 AM

Quote from: IsLame on January 31, 2011, 12:18 AM
You should hook up with him again & tell him about your thoughts now

If he ever returns to youtube, I'm going to ask him if his opinion of me would change IF I left Islam. He was very nice to me I thought its just an act him acting all nice so he can give dawah to a misguided muslimah but even after showing him pics of being hijabless with makeup on he never said a bad word
- GodIsNotGreat
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Re: Best arguments for secularizing Islam
Reply #44 - January 31, 2011, 11:49 AM

He was too busy whacking off to your pics.

19:46 <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

Quote from: yeezevee
well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra
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Re: Best arguments for secularizing Islam
Reply #45 - January 31, 2011, 05:13 PM

:O GING has changed so much since I 1st talked to him
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