Does the koran exist?

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Does the koran exist?
OP - September 28, 2014, 09:30 AM

Reading the discussion about mo - was he an atheist, and yvz comment, which mo, OK let's ask, which koran?

There is a 1920's koran edition, but that was written when surrealism was becoming popular and existentialism was not faraway! Quantum physics was in the news.

Still reading Shoemaker and wonder if it is time we compared the koran to the smile on the cheshire cat.

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Does the koran exist?
Reply #1 - September 28, 2014, 12:28 PM

I sometimes wonder, esteemed toi, whether you are on acid.
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Does the koran exist?
Reply #2 - September 28, 2014, 01:17 PM

Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
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Reply #3 - September 28, 2014, 02:02 PM

I am actually serious! Was there ever an original koran? Or were bits collected and made up, revised, altered, edited continually?

So maybe the 1920's Cairo version is now the real one?

Quote
The ship of Theseus, also known as Theseus' paradox, is a thought experiment that raises the question of whether an object which has had all its components replaced remains fundamentally the same object. The paradox is most notably recorded by Plutarch in Life of Theseus from the late 1st century. Plutarch asked whether a ship which was restored by replacing each and every one of its wooden parts remained the same ship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Does the koran exist?
Reply #4 - September 28, 2014, 02:20 PM

Quote from: moi on September 28, 2014, 02:02 PM
I am actually serious! Was there ever an original koran? Or were bits collected and made up, revised, altered, edited continually?

So maybe the 1920's Cairo version is now the real one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

No no., 1920 is just 95 year old moi., Quran as a book published way back .. for e.gs this PDF file of Quran in Arabic http://art.thewalters.org/files/pdf/W563.pdf a 256 pages of it was well known and it is a Timurid copy of the Qur'an, which is believed to have been produced in Northern India in the 9th century AH/AD 15th century

Quote
The manuscript opens with a series of illuminated frontispieces. The main text is written in a large, vocalized polychrome Mu'aqqaq script. Marginal explanations of the readings of particular words and phrases are in Thuluth and Naskh scripts, and there is interlinear Persian translation in red Naskh script. The fore-edge flap of the gold-tooled, brown leather binding is inscribed with verses 77 through 80 from Chapter 56 (Surat al-waqi'ah). The seal of Sultan Bayezid II (886-917 AH/AD 1481-1512) appears on fol. 8a. There is an erased bequest (waqf) statement and stamp of Sultan 'Uthman Khan (432-6 AH/AD 1027-1031

Please down load the pdf file and those who can read/Arabic script should compare that with that modern versions of Arabic Quran that are there on web.. and other versions as book are

kufic script, Eighth or ninth century.

maghribi script, 13th-14th centuries.

muhaqaq script, 14th-15th centuries

shikasta nastaliq script, 18th-19th centuries

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the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Does the koran exist?
Reply #5 - September 28, 2014, 03:30 PM

Well the original is on bits of leaf and bones lol, i wanna see this original.. does it actually exist, was it even saved.
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Reply #6 - September 28, 2014, 03:41 PM

Quote from: suki on September 28, 2014, 03:30 PM
Well the original is on bits of leaf and bones lol, i wanna see this original.. does it actually exist, was it even saved.

ha Hu!... what is original to you suki??

what year are you talking about?

alleged Muhammad started preaching Islam with the alleged first revelation in that alleged year 610.. do you want to see that manuscript of that first revelation?

alleged Muhammad preached alleged revelation of Quran for 23 years until his alleged death in the year 632,, do you want to see manuscript of first whole book in the year 632?

which Quran and which year would you consider as first manuscript suki??

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Does the koran exist?
Reply #7 - September 28, 2014, 03:46 PM

Naw i meant the original relics, bones and leaves that his words were recorded on, they have probably turned to dust anyway, wondering did they preserve them somehow ( i mean if they really existed) I saw a group of taliban on tv once claim to own some of mohameds clothes, they were casually throwing them around person to person
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Reply #8 - September 28, 2014, 04:49 PM

Pretty pictures above but they are all obviously different!

And if alleged originals are leaf and bone maybe the koran does not exist - it is mythical!

Has no-one claimed - look I have found another chapter that got missed out?! Gabriel had a word with me when I checked there wasn't a black dog under the bed!

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Reply #9 - September 28, 2014, 04:52 PM

Quote from: moi on September 28, 2014, 04:49 PM
Pretty pictures above but they are all obviously different!

Using that criterion, I'm beginning to strongly doubt your existence.

Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
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Reply #10 - September 28, 2014, 04:54 PM

The wiki article above relates many variants on the Theseus tale, including one marriage lasting several hundred years!

Is the koran like this?

Quote
In the popular BBC sitcom Only Fools and Horses, Trigger (a roadsweeper) declares he has won an award for keeping the same broom for 20 years — "17 new heads and 14 new handles".[12] This has become known as the "Trigger's Broom" paradox.[13][14]

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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