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Theme Changer

 Topic: Did Muhammed order or participate in stoning?

 (Read 1772 times)
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  • Did Muhammed order or participate in stoning?
     OP - June 16, 2011, 07:01 PM

    I know there is a similar topic, but I want to discuss this particular matter (which might have been discussed before). Did Muhammed ever participate in, or order, stoning?

    According to this hadith he did.

    http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/023.sbt.html

    Volume 2, Book 23, Number 413:
    Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar :

    The Jew brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from amongst them who have committed (adultery) illegal sexual intercourse. He ordered both of them to be stoned (to death), near the place of offering the funeral prayers beside the mosque."

    Has anyone of you ever brought this up, and discussed it with a muslim? I would like to know what they think of their prophet ordering stoning of people. Which is such a primitive punishment. Sure he might have found it morally wrong, but to stone people for it, is of course just sickening.

  • Re: Did Muhammed order or participate in stoning?
     Reply #1 - June 16, 2011, 07:18 PM

    Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun: During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.
    Sahih Bukhari 5:58:188

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  • Re: Did Muhammed order or participate in stoning?
     Reply #2 - June 16, 2011, 07:19 PM

    He's actually done far worse such as the event at Banu Qurayza,
    Although I haven't actually heard an Islamic response on the subject as yet.
  • Re: Did Muhammed order or participate in stoning?
     Reply #3 - June 16, 2011, 07:20 PM

    Sahih Muslim, Book 17:  The Book Pertaining to Punishments Prescribed by Islam (Kitab Al-Hudud)

    INTRODUCTION

    The penal laws of Islam are called Hudud in the Hadith and Fiqh. This word is the plural of Hadd, which means prevention, hindrance, restraint, prohibition, and hence a restrictive ordinance or statute of God, respecting things lawful and unlawful.

    Punishments are divided into two classes, one of which is called Hadd and the other Ta'zir. The Hadd is a measure of punishment defined by the Qur'an and the Sunnah. In Ta'zir, the court, is allowed to use its discretion in regard to the form and measure in which such punishment is to be inflicted.

    Punishments by way of Hadd are of the following forms: death by stoning, amputation of a limb or limbs, flogging by one hundred or eighty strokes. They are prescribed respectively for the following offences: adultery committed by married persons, theft, highway robbery, drunkenness and slander imputing unchastity to women.

    The punishments described above are the maximum punishments for the above mentioned crimes. These can be reduced keeping in view the circumstances in which the crimes were committed, the nature of the evidence, and the motive of the criminal with which he committed the crime.

    […]

    Chapter 3: PRESCRIBED PUNISHMENT FOR AN ADULTERER AND AN ADULTERESS

    ~ Number 4191:
    'Ubada b. as-Samit reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Receive (teaching) from me, receive (teaching) from me. Allah has ordained a way for those (women). When an unmarried male commits adultery with an unmarried female (they should receive) one hundred lashes and banishment for one year. And in case of married male committing adultery with a married female, they shall receive one hundred lashes and be stoned to death.

    ~ Number 4192:
    'Ubada b. as-Samit reported that whenever Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) received revelation, he felt its rigour and the complexion of his face changed. One day revelation descended upon him, he felt the same rigour. When it was over and he felt relief, he said: Take from me. Verily Allah has ordained a way for them (the women who commit fornication),: (When) a married man (commits adultery) with a married woman, and an unmarried male with an unmarried woman, then in case of married (persons) there is (a punishment) of one hundred lashes and then stoning (to death). And in case of unmarried persons, (the punishment) is one hundred lashes and exile for one year.

    ~ Number 4193:
    This hadith has been reported on the authority of Qatada with the same chain of transmitters except with this variation that the unmarried is to be lashed and exiled, and the married one is to be lashed and stoned. There is neither any mention of one year nor that of one hundred.


    Chapter 4: STONING OF A MARRIED ADULTERER

    ~ Number 4194:

    'Abdullah b. 'Abbas reported that 'Umar b. Khattab sat on the pulpit of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Verily Allah sent Muhammad (may peace be upon him) with truth and He sent down the Book upon him, and the verse of stoning was included in what was sent down to him. We recited it, retained it in our memory and understood it. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) awarded the punishment of stoning to death (to the married adulterer and adulteress) and, after him, we also awarded the punishment of stoning, I am afraid that with the lapse of time, the people (may forget it) and may say: We do not find the punishment of stoning in the Book of Allah, and thus go astray by abandoning this duty prescribed by Allah. Stoning is a duty laid down in Allah's Book for married men and women who commit adultery when proof is established, or it there is pregnancy, or a confession.

    ~ Number 4195:
    This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Zuhri with the same chain of transmitters.

    [...]

    Chapter 6: STONING TO DEATH OF JEWS AND OTHER DHIMMIS IN CASE OF ADULTERY

    ~ Number 4211:

    Abdullah b. 'Umar reported that a Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) who had committed adultery. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) came to the Jews and said: What do you find in Torah for one who commits adultery? They said: We darken their faces and make them ride on the donkey with their faces turned to the opposite direction (and their backs touching each other), and then they are taken round (the city). He said: Bring Torah if you are truthful. They brought it and recited it until when they came to the verse pertaining to stoning, the person who was reading placed his hand on the verse pertaining to stoning, and read (only that which was) between his hands and what was subsequent to that. Abdullah b. Salim who was at that time with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Command him (the reciter) to lift his hand. He lifted it and there was, underneath that, the verse pertaining to stoning. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) pronounced judgment about both of them and they were stoned. Abdullah b. 'Umar said: I was one of those who stoned them, and I saw him (the Jew) protecting her (the Jewess) with his body.

    ~ Number 4212:
    Ibn Umar reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stoned to death the Jews, both male and female, who had committed adultery. The Jews brought them to Allah's Messenger (may peace he upon him). The rest of the hadith is the same.

    ~ Number 4213:

    Ibn 'Umar reported that the Jews brought to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) a man and a woman who had committed adultery. The rest of the hadith is the same.

    ~ Number 4214:

    Al-Bara' b. 'Azib reported: There happened to pass by Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) a Jew blackened and lashed. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) called them (the Jews) and said: Is this the punishment that you find in your Book (Torah) as a prescribed punishment for adultery? They said: Yes. He (the Holy Prophet) called one of the scholars amongst them and said: I ask you in the name of Allah Who sent down the Torah on Moses if that is the prescribed punishment for adultery that you find in your Book. He said: No. Had you not asked me in the name of Allah, I would not have given you this information. We find stoning to death (as punishment prescribed in the Torah). But this (crime) became quite common amongst our aristocratic class. So when we caught hold of any rich person (indulging in this offence) we spared him, but when we caught hold of a helpless person we imposed the prescribed punishment upon him. We then said: Let us argree (on a punishment) which we can inflict both upon the rich and the poor. So We decided to blacken the face with coal and flog as a substitute punishment for stoning. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: O Allah, I am the first to revive Thy command when they had made it dead. He then commanded and he (the offender) was stoned to death. Allah, the Majestic and Glorious, sent down (this verse):" O Messenger, (the behaviour of) those who vie with one another in denying the truth should not grieve you..." up to" is vouchsafed unto you, accept it" (v. 41) 2176 It was said (by the Jews): Go to Muhammad; it he commands you to blacken the face and award flogging (as punishment for adultery), then accept it, but it he gives verdict for stoning, then avoid it. It was (then) that Allah, the Majestic and Great, sent down (these verses):" And they who do not judge in accordance with what Allah has revealed are, indeed, deniers of the truth" (v. 44) ;" And they who do not judge in accordance with what Allah has revealed-they, they indeed are the wrongdoers" (v. 45) ;" And they who do not judge in accordance with what God has revealed-they are the iniquitous (v. 47). (All these verses) were revealed in connection with the non-believers.

    ~ Number 4215:
    This hadith has been narrated on the authority of A'mash up to the words:" Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) pronounced judgment and he was stoned (to death)" And he mentioned nothing subsequent to that pertaining to the revelation of verses.

    [...]

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Did Muhammed order or participate in stoning?
     Reply #4 - June 16, 2011, 09:06 PM

    Muddy, surely "I" is referring to 'Amr bin Maimun?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Did Muhammed order or participate in stoning?
     Reply #5 - June 16, 2011, 10:22 PM

    I am sure he ordered stoning, but he might be too lazy to throw stones himself.... Wink

    Religion is organized superstition
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