Are you a Muslim without God?

1« Previous thread | Next thread »
- pommeka0
- Member
- offline
Are you a Muslim without God?
OP - May 11, 2012, 08:12 AM

I'm preparing a documentary for BBC Radio 4 examining whether the idea of religion without God – recently popularized by Alain de Botton’s new book – is conceivable for people from a Muslim background.

For this purpose, I’m curious to discover whether there's anyone out there who loves Islamic art and architecture, enjoys reciting Islam’s great poets, may not drink or eat pork, and identifies as culturally Muslim – but has no sense (or desire to pretend) that God exists, and/or has turned away from an Islamic upbringing s/he experienced as restrictive.

Does any of this sound like you? Please get in touch, here or via my email: kristine.pommert@bbc.co.uk

Looking forward to hearing from you!

Kristine Pommert
Senior Producer
BBC Audio & Music
- osmanthus
- Cave dwelling
- Pub Regular
- Fingerer of piglets
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #1 - May 11, 2012, 08:17 AM

Well, that's not really "religion without god". It's more "culture without god".

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
- Absurdist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #2 - May 11, 2012, 08:22 AM

My thoughts exactly.
- osmanthus
- Cave dwelling
- Pub Regular
- Fingerer of piglets
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #3 - May 11, 2012, 08:26 AM

Damn. Abood is agreeing with me. I must re-evaluate my position.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
- Absurdist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #4 - May 11, 2012, 08:28 AM
- Tonyt
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #5 - May 11, 2012, 01:06 PM

I think it is an interesting topic that is worthy of discussion. In Islam, religion and culture are so interwoven that they are difficult to seperate out. Muhammad is not just the founder of a religion but also a culture and national identity. It is different from say Christianity where pretty much no Christians today can identify culturally with Jesus, even for Christians that are born in Jesus's homeland, they tend to speak Arabic today which is a language totally alien to Jesus.

I have heard quite a few Muslims say that they are Cultural Muslims but do not believe in God, whilst I have heard other Muslims laughing at this idea, saying that if you do not believe in God then there is no way you can be a Muslim.

If you don't find anybody to respond to your question on this forum, then I am going to send you a PM where you may get some responses, however they are not British.
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #6 - May 11, 2012, 01:16 PM

Quote from: Tonyt on May 11, 2012, 01:06 PM
I think it is an interesting topic that is worthy of discussion. In Islam, religion and culture are so interwoven that they are difficult to seperate out. Muhammad is not just the founder of a religion but also a culture and national identity. It is different from say Christianity where pretty much no Christians today can identify culturally with Jesus, even for Christians that are born in Jesus's homeland, they tend to speak Arabic today which is a language totally alien to Jesus.

I have heard quite a few Muslims say that they are Cultural Muslims but do not believe in God, whilst I have heard other Muslims laughing at this idea, saying that if you do not believe in God then there is no way you can be a Muslim.

If you don't find anybody to respond to your question on this forum, then I am going to send you a PM where you may get some responses, however they are not British.

well,

Religion without god is called as Atheism and
Muslim without Allah, without Quran is called Ex-Muslim

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- Clawed
- The Most Rational Person On CEMB
- Member
- The Most Rational Person On CEMB
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #7 - May 12, 2012, 08:01 AM

There may be a couple but many of them probably don't know how to read because if they did and were able to read (English Translation or not) they would be Muslim if they were rational.

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Stephen Hawking
- Stardust
- Founder of Neo-Hippiism
- Ex-Muslim
- Beneath The Veil
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #8 - May 12, 2012, 08:09 AM

+1 @Cultural Muslim

"Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
- Stardust
- Founder of Neo-Hippiism
- Ex-Muslim
- Beneath The Veil
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #9 - May 12, 2012, 08:15 AM

I want to actually distance myself from Islamic things, probably because in my mind negative emotions are associated with it and I would rather not put myself in a position where I feel like I'm returning to that religion.

"Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
- chepea
- hello! testing testing
- Ex-Muslim
- Deist-ish-maybe
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #10 - May 12, 2012, 08:47 AM

Sounds more cultural than anything.

The basis of Islam is "tawheed", i.e. affirmation of One God. If a person doesn't believe in God, they're missing the central tenet of the entire faith.

People can still behave like Muslims without being Muslims though. For census purposes, they would be considered Muslim, but I don't know if that would be God's view on the matter.

Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

Expect me to come back a Muslim. j/k we'll see..
- Eternity
- Member
- Forever in our hearts
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #11 - May 14, 2012, 01:25 AM

I'm this right now. But I have no desire to be I'm kinda of being held against my will.
- Da_Dude
- Still chillin'
- Ex-Muslim
- Chill Man
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #12 - May 14, 2012, 01:48 AM

Quote from: Clawed on May 12, 2012, 08:01 AM
There may be a couple but many of them probably don't know how to read because if they did and were able to read (English Translation or not) they would be Muslim if they were rational.

You is so funny clawed.
- TheDashingRabbit
- Politics and Literature Junkie
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #13 - May 14, 2012, 02:23 AM

Quote from: osmanthus on May 11, 2012, 08:17 AM
Well, that's not really "religion without god". It's more "culture without god".

I would call it a philosophy without god instead of culture. Take Buddhism for example. It's more of a philosophy/way of life than a religion. Even my best friend who is a Hindu says he does not believe in any god and that he takes his religion as more of a philosophy to guide his life.

In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
- TheDashingRabbit
- Politics and Literature Junkie
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #14 - May 14, 2012, 02:26 AM

Quote from: Da_Dude on May 14, 2012, 01:48 AM

You is so funny clawed.

+1. If that idiot named clawed thinks that he is the most rational person on CEMB then why the hell is he even on here?!?!? I suspect superiority complex.

In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
- asbie
- Actually just a dude
- Poster of the Month
- Past, present, future...
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #15 - May 14, 2012, 02:41 AM

My nihilistic tendencies would compel me to destroy all such designations. So no, this doesn't sound like me at all.

And I'm recoiling at the suggestion of it being "culture without god" that is being described. To me, a blind sense of affiliation and loyalty to one's ancestor's achievements doesn't sound like the above term, in fact it sounds something much more sinister and corrosive.

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #16 - May 14, 2012, 04:36 AM

Quote from: Da_Dude on May 14, 2012, 01:48 AM

You is so funny clawed.

yes clawed is funny and a Non_Muslim disguised as Muslim...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFC8uQfJgDo

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- z10
- Pub Regular
- Imago Dei
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #17 - May 14, 2012, 05:37 AM

Quote from: osmanthus on May 11, 2012, 08:26 AM
Damn. Abood is agreeing with me. I must re-evaluate my position.

It's a trap, you'll just be mentally masturbating

At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
- pommeka0
- Member
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #18 - May 18, 2012, 03:19 PM

Hi, your post looks very interesting. It would be great to talk to those people you mention - and to you as well, if you're willing, even if it's only for background. You clearly have a lot of worthwhile thoughts on the matter.

Really look forward to receiving your PM - many thanks!

With best wishes,

Kristine
- pommeka0
- Member
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #19 - May 18, 2012, 03:20 PM

So does Islam work as a philosophy without God? Is it working for you? It would be great to hear more!
- pommeka0
- Member
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #20 - May 18, 2012, 03:22 PM

I can see the point, but does that mean that in your view, cultural Christians don't exist either? If you look at the Christian creed, there is quite a lot to subscribe to from a faith perspective. Would be very interested to hear more from you!
- Absurdist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #21 - May 18, 2012, 04:51 PM

I think the difference between Christianity and Islam is that Islam sets out a whole lifestyle with many rules, including as you mentioned dietary regulations and whatnot. Christianity sets no such rules. Many Muslims give up certain rules even while retaining the ultimate faith in God. The casual Muslim who drinks, has premarital sex, and engages in all sorts of activities that are forbidden in Islam, then fasts in Ramadan and does a few prayers is a common phenomenon.

But how common is it for a person who grew up Muslim to stop believing in God but continue to follow Islamic regulations? Or does someone enjoying Islamic art and architecture qualify as being "Muslim without God" according to your definition?

Personally, I think Islam played a role in shaping my identity. Not only do I appreciate Islamic aesthetics, but there are certain values, such as the importance of community and family, that I think I believe in due to my upbringing. But I don't consider myself religious without God because I believe in those things. Those beliefs are not religious, they're purely cultural and social. And I refuse to use my values as a way to argue that even people who gave up religion cannot live without an ordained life.
- Milk Sheikh
- Member
- Insane in the membrane.
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #22 - June 22, 2012, 10:29 AM

Hmmm, that's kind of like me

I don't really have any large objections to Islam, if I had to pick a religion it'd be Islam but my heart just isn't in it, I just don't believe in the whole concept of God, therefore I'm not "Muslim", since a Muslim is defined as one who believes in only 1 God and accepts Muhammad as his final messenger

But I love learning about Islam and the life of Muhammad, it's pretty fascinating
- Omaar Khayaam
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Are you a Muslim without God?
Reply #23 - June 22, 2012, 11:11 AM

Quote from: Milk Sheikh on June 22, 2012, 10:29 AM
Hmmm, that's kind of like me

I don't really have any large objections to Islam, if I had to pick a religion it'd be Islam but my heart just isn't in it, I just don't believe in the whole concept of God, therefore I'm not "Muslim", since a Muslim is defined as one who believes in only 1 God and accepts Muhammad as his final messenger

But I love learning about Islam and the life of Muhammad, it's pretty fascinating

I would say that is me as well. I don't identify myself as a Muslim or even give myself as an ex-Muslim. Here again, my apostasy was a theological one and nothing specifically to do with Islam. Why should I claim to be something, who's central doctrine and dogma I reject?
1« Previous thread | Next thread »