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Theme Changer

 Topic: previous prophets in islam?

 (Read 1775 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • previous prophets in islam?
     OP - July 10, 2012, 02:31 AM

    in islam are all the prophets and messangers before mohammed only for a specific time and place or were some of them for a specific time and place with the others being for all time but corrupted? some scriptual evidance would be helpful too.

    thanks
  • Re: previous prophets in islam?
     Reply #1 - July 10, 2012, 03:00 AM

    All of them for all time I suppose, since they were all muslims, preached al-islam (or was it islam without "al" - I forget and it could be important) and (al)islam is for all time, one and only, perfectly perfect (for a specified time until corrupted over and over before Mo, and forever perfect after Mo, or was it Abu Bakr...)

    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: previous prophets in islam?
     Reply #2 - July 10, 2012, 06:16 AM

    Quote
    perfectly perfect


    All creatures are equal.  Some are more equal than others.

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: previous prophets in islam?
     Reply #3 - July 10, 2012, 12:35 PM

    i have heard some muslims say that the reason why the others were not protected was because that whilst they preached principles of islam like monotheism etc they were only designed for that time and people.

    what does the scripture say on the matter?
  • Re: previous prophets in islam?
     Reply #4 - July 10, 2012, 12:47 PM


    Its designed to burnish the narrative of Islamic finality, and Islamic supremacy. Everything that existed before Islam was simply leading up to Islam. Nothing comes after Islam. Ultimately everything else deviated and all followers of other belief systems are deviants. The chauvinism and arrogance is embedded in it.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: previous prophets in islam?
     Reply #5 - July 10, 2012, 02:38 PM

    i have heard some muslims say that the reason why the others were not protected was because that whilst they preached principles of islam like monotheism etc they were only designed for that time and people.

    what does the scripture say on the matter?


    Sounds ad hoc-y.

    Islam itself seems very much like an idea that was just for the people at a certain time. The Quran and Hadith go on about the Polythiests this and the Romans that and the Christians this and the Jews that, but they're all very relative to a specific time and nearly nothing could even apply today.

    I used to be powerful, then I started blogging.
  • Re: previous prophets in islam?
     Reply #6 - July 10, 2012, 03:20 PM

    Sounds ad hoc-y.

    Islam itself seems very much like an idea that was just for the people at a certain time. The Quran and Hadith go on about the Polythiests this and the Romans that and the Christians this and the Jews that, but they're all very relative to a specific time and nearly nothing could even apply today.

    yap..

    juice..cross sticks ..and star moon all those faiths are  just for the people at a certain time.. the only thing that is for every one and for all times is.

    "Be your Own Prophet Make your own religion"   and that is nothing but Polytheism born out of African plains to start with..  

    Off course there should be freedom to explore and question everything .. Including books of allah and messengers/prophets/ of allah  doll

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: previous prophets in islam?
     Reply #7 - July 10, 2012, 03:38 PM

    Sounds ad hoc-y.

    Islam itself seems very much like an idea that was just for the people at a certain time. The Quran and Hadith go on about the Polythiests this and the Romans that and the Christians this and the Jews that, but they're all very relative to a specific time and nearly nothing could even apply today.


    I wonder though how much of Islam's scriptures actually state it's finality... as if everything applies forever.
    Most of the koran was even revealed in contact as events happened to the early Muslims.  I don't see much in the koran that isn't time and place.  The whole 'sword versus' for example are preceeded in the sura with:

    [9.1] (This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Apostle towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement.

    Clearly this whole sura is just to deal with a very specific group of people.  How do you read it otherwise?  We can certainly try and say this time is like that time...

    But I mean how strong/convincing are the actual versus in the koran in terms of its finality and eternity of message?  I don't think it's that strong.





  • Re: previous prophets in islam?
     Reply #8 - July 11, 2012, 02:54 AM

    Those "prophets" of Islam never existed.  Guys like Noah, Moses, Lot, Shoaib & Abraham are all fictional and stories surrounding them are fables.
  • Re: previous prophets in islam?
     Reply #9 - July 14, 2012, 05:44 PM

    But I mean how strong/convincing are the actual versus in the koran in terms of its finality and eternity of message?  I don't think it's that strong.



    A lot of people refer to Surah Ma'idah verse 3 (5:3), which says:

    "This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."

    This is interpreted to mean that the religion is complete and is meant for everyone from that point on, but the wording there is very vague and taken in context, I'm not quite sure what Allah (or Muhammed) is trying to tell us about the rest of the verse.

    "Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."

    This verse is also in a very random place in the Quran, so if this was a verse that completed the religion, it seems there's a whole bunch of other rules that came after it. For sure, the Qur'an isn't chronological, but the very verse itself introduces a new rule for the religion, directly after saying the religion is complete.

    In summary this seems to say.

    "Hey, don't eat certain meats. The religion is complete now, there's going to be no more rules. Btw, there's a new rule, you can eat those certain meats that I said you're not allowed to eat if you really have to."

    Quote from: Mullah Rock
    Those "prophets" of Islam never existed.  Guys like Noah, Moses, Lot, Shoaib & Abraham are all fictional and stories surrounding them are fables.


    I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion, I mean, for sure aspects of those stories are complete fiction, but it's difficult to say what is complete myth and not. We can be certain that there was no world-wide flood and even the idea that someone constructed a ship, which sailed afloat during a flood sounds a bit far-fetched in terms of the motivations of the person building the ship etc, but most of these stories could possibly be exaggerations of real events, or even half truths.  There may very well have been a Moses, Abraham or Shoaib who believed that they were in communication with a deity, it is often difficult to tell history and legend apart, but their messages in themselves were spurious and even contradictory at parts, so there is little reason to believe they were actually talking to the same being or any being other than themselves.

    It's tempting to dismiss these stories as wholly mythical, but there isn't a justification for doing so.

    Quote from: yeezevee
    "Be your Own Prophet Make your own religion"


    I'm really not sure what this means, it sounds like really bad advice that leads to more complications and divisiveness. Being your own prophet and making your own religion will invariably lead to people treating your like a prophet and following your religion, which contradicts the idea itself.

    Also, a prophet by definition is someone that prophesies, makes predictions about the future. Why would you do that?

    I used to be powerful, then I started blogging.
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