How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?

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How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?
OP - July 14, 2012, 10:15 PM

Islam does tend to categorise societies and people and cultures in relation to itself.

How does Islam classify a secular liberal society in which religion is absent from the public domain in any great sense, as we have in large parts of western Europe?

Is secular liberalism a form of jahiliya, or polytheism? Polytheism in that they might say a false idol is 'worshipped' in terms of society not being regulated by an idea of god.

Any ideas?

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Re: How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?
Reply #1 - July 14, 2012, 10:19 PM

Have you tried asking them?

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Re: How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?
Reply #2 - July 14, 2012, 10:27 PM

I've never asked specifically. Its always been quite nebulous whenever I've gone over it. I just wondered. Has there been any kind of literature written about this that anyone knows about.

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Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?
Reply #3 - July 14, 2012, 11:15 PM

jahiliya (that is how it is often called by salafists).

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Re: How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?
Reply #4 - July 14, 2012, 11:26 PM

Maybe it's just misguidance

But seriously, using "Islam" as a homogeneous religion, as if Muslims agree on it? Especially aspects like this, that aren't creed or anything.

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Re: How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?
Reply #5 - July 14, 2012, 11:28 PM

That's like a creationist accusing an evolutionist of being ignorant!

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Re: How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?
Reply #6 - July 14, 2012, 11:28 PM

Sorry?

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Re: How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?
Reply #7 - July 14, 2012, 11:35 PM

Quote from: Homer on July 14, 2012, 11:15 PM
jahiliya (that is how it is often called by salafists).

Yeah I figured that would be one conception. I just wondered whether the notion of a secular liberal society could be described as polytheistic in some ways - they think of it as a deification of X Y or Z

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?
Reply #8 - July 14, 2012, 11:35 PM

Deification of nationalism? Maybe...

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Re: How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?
Reply #9 - July 14, 2012, 11:36 PM

Jahiliyya =ignorance ?

Creationists seem to say that evolutionists are ignorant of the 'immutable truth' ie.Jahils who create false experiments to propagate a falsehood!

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Re: How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?
Reply #10 - July 14, 2012, 11:37 PM

Quote from: chepea on July 14, 2012, 11:26 PM
Maybe it's just misguidance

But seriously, using "Islam" as a homogeneous religion, as if Muslims agree on it?

Yes, misguidance is another way of looking at it that I can imagine being considered that way. Living in ignorance.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?
Reply #11 - July 15, 2012, 12:00 AM

Quote from: Homer on July 14, 2012, 11:15 PM
jahiliya (that is how it is often called by salafists).

or mulhid (i.e atheist). In the arab world secularists are called mulhid in a derogatory way even though not all secularists are atheists.

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Re: How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?
Reply #12 - July 15, 2012, 12:08 AM

Thanks ateapotist, just did a google and found this from some random:

Quote
what exactly is the difference between a kafir, a mulhid, and a zindeeq?

kafir in arabic means cover.....we call the farmer "kafir" coz he cover the seed under the ground....unbeliever cover his brain from seeing the truth..yes im talking about you:P

mulhid is a modern word it means kafir too...but we call the people who believe in nature as "mulhid"..we don't call satan worshippers, cows worshippers as "mulhid".

we have also "mushrik" the one who worship someone else with allah.

zandik the one who show something and hide something else..hypocrite.....yes some old scholars used this word to describe kaffir, but not now.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111001054803AA9plRL

Elsewhere mulhid does seem to be a word for just a plain old atheist

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?
Reply #13 - July 15, 2012, 03:01 AM

Islam definition of secular:- Freedom to do what you want so long as you follow the Qur'an, and if you're not Muslim then maybe you should be.

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Re: How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?
Reply #14 - July 15, 2012, 03:15 AM

my post here will be strictly from experience..

all the terms.. (imo).. somehow assume, or imply that one knows islam is the truth and is basicly trying to rebel against it, or cover it up ...
kafir, or kuffar.. was used to describe anyone who did not follow islam, or did not identify as a muslim.. and it also means to cover up, as if they mean to cover the truth ...
jahiliya/jahil.. was used to describe the people that have not yet heard of islam.. the ignorant.. the uneducated.. the naive.. these people had a responsiblity to find islam...
munafiq.. the two faced when it comes to islam.. secretly does not practise it but only puts on a show for his family or outsiders..
christians would be considered mushriqeen (was always taught that).. the mushrik-( anyone who worships more than one god)... , the whole son of god thing and the trinity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV9vdUjuWxc
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Re: How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?
Reply #15 - July 15, 2012, 08:43 AM

Quote from: nessrriinn on July 15, 2012, 03:15 AM
my post here will be strictly from experience..

1). all the terms.. (imo).. somehow assume, or imply that one knows islam is the truth and is basicly trying to rebel against it, or cover it up ...

2). kafir, or kuffar.. was used to describe anyone who did not follow islam, or did not identify as a muslim.. and it also means to cover up, as if they mean to cover the truth ...

3). jahiliya/jahil.. was used to describe the people that have not yet heard of islam.. the ignorant.. the uneducated.. the naive.. these people had a responsiblity to find islam...

4). munafiq.. the two faced when it comes to islam.. secretly does not practise it but only puts on a show for his family or outsiders..

5). christians would be considered mushriqeen (was always taught that).. the mushrik-( anyone who worships more than one god)... , the whole son of god thing and the trinity

Hmmm.. Sooooo many Mulhidas around .. Biggest mulhida of CEMB .. Shhhhh My goodness.. words kill not just people but their souls.

....mulhida .. are you mulhida ? .. good word to learn at 3.34 minutes.

I love it when bums and baboons start making noise in an anger.

That word of ateapotist is a good one to keep in the vocabulary..

Now make me a five letter statement with "Mulhid.." ..lol.

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Re: How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?
Reply #16 - July 15, 2012, 11:16 AM

It occurred to me that mulhid/mulhida (male/female atheist) is used as an insult in the arab world against secularists because there aren't many open atheists there (for safety reasons), so it is viewed as something to be ashamed of.

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Re: How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?
Reply #17 - July 15, 2012, 12:00 PM

A secularist is a mulhid because one can't be a Muslim without being an Islamist. To be a secularist is to be in direct and active opposition to the myth of the ummah.
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Re: How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?
Reply #18 - July 15, 2012, 12:04 PM

You can be a believer in god and still be a staunch secularist.

I guess what matters is whether you oppose the imposition of Islam into the structures of the state and that in itself is enough to render you an 'atheist' because then Islam becomes defined as a public duty - relegating Islam to a private matter is a blasphemy, which is a very convenient weapon for Islamists to use against those who oppose them.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?
Reply #19 - July 15, 2012, 12:12 PM

Sharia prescribes the death penalty for apostates for the very reason that they are believed to be fighting against Islam and are thus enemies of the ummah. An apostate is only an apostate once their views are publicized. In that sense, an active secularist is more of a mulhid than a passive atheist who doesn't speak about it.
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Re: How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?
Reply #20 - July 15, 2012, 12:52 PM

They would be considered:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zindiq

am surprised none on an ex-Muslim forum mentioned this.

Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
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Re: How does Islam classify a secular liberal society?
Reply #21 - August 03, 2012, 09:08 AM

Quote from: billy on July 15, 2012, 12:04 PM
You can be a believer in god and still be a staunch secularist.

I guess what matters is whether you oppose the imposition of Islam into the structures of the state and that in itself is enough to render you an 'atheist' because then Islam becomes defined as a public duty - relegating Islam to a private matter is a blasphemy, which is a very convenient weapon for Islamists to use against those who oppose them.

Sounds familiar, i have encountered these type of statements many times before,i have tried telling few islamists that religion is a private thing between a person and God but they refuse to see it that way.

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