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Theme Changer

 Topic: Love

 (Read 19529 times)
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  • Re: Love
     Reply #90 - June 06, 2010, 08:50 PM

    Quote
    enjoyable read - but there is certainly more to love than just chemicals released in the brain.  ...- people fall in love with specific individuals. there appears to be a special connection between specific individuals (stardust gave a good description) - and this is called love.


    Now that's bullocks Smiley Special connection, no. In theory, in my opinion, anyone can fall in love with anyone. But there's of course a couple of obstacles Som of them might be the following: 1. The chance of meeting across the this wide world (this classical geographical obstacle has somehow been softened with the internet). 2. The social ladder; it has been a classical way most societies have organised itself. Rich boy meets rich girl, poor girl meets poor boy. Well-educated boy meets well-educated girls etc. Of course these a not natural laws and we have examples of couples breaking these norms, but are natural elements of society. We could find other examples of such obstacles which explains why x doesn't fall in love with y. But these different kind of obstacles are also to the background for other kind of obstacles. Growing up in a specific neighbourhood having specific kind of friends etc. are part of making your cultural background (nuture). A background which is a central component along with 'nature' in the making of your preferences. These preferences are important. They are the ones which make you fall in love with a celebrity (one that you haven't been able to speak to in person, to touch, to smell or, and this is also very important, swap saliva). But the OP also was refering to the ability to fall in love with an idea. The love for a celebrity is in my opinion similar to the love for an idea. The preferences you have is very much based on chemical reactions. To put it roughly, in the same way your brain learns to being able to do math your brain learns to have specific preferences. The evolutionary aspect of this is of course that the ability to feel profoundly for a specific idea has been an advantage. Religion and the communty some religions have been able to create is an example of how love for a specific idea could have been an advantage. The love for another person has especially one obvious advantage; offspring. But other advantages should be mentioned; companionship (somehow to help delouse you before bedtime), safety etc. Now we have the preferences, then there's attractio. This comes aorund based on what the article calls lust . This is not what we would call love, but attraction based on the preferences (the way you are wired) and the specific physical (or perhaps social, psychological) traits the other person has. From here the adrenalin, dopamin, serotonin and later on the oxytocin and vasopressin kicks in. Your preferences might alter a bit or perhaps a lot. Bear in mind that here in the west we kinda drink once in while (it happens). And these small amounts of alcohol (something that do mess with our mind) can alter some of the obstacles and preferences, and perhaps when that lucky guy or girl has tastened the sweet perfume or saliva of that lucky guy or girl. In the end it's chemicals and it's in your brain (not in your heart Smiley)

    This is of course not a perfect rendering of the problem, but it's my 2 cents for now Smiley
  • Re: Love
     Reply #91 - June 07, 2010, 12:09 AM

    Yes but being in love is a euphoric feeling, and one I woul associate with HIGH levels of seratonin, its not one associated with depression & anxiety that I would assume low levels of seratonin would produce. 

    The drug Ecstacy works by inducing high levls of seratonin, the feeling is similar as being in love (in fact you spend a lot of time when you are high on it telling everyone that you love them)

    Being in love, i.e. persistently thinking about your love interest, is actually the opposite to euphoric. Obsessing about things, even 'happy' things can make a person tense. Love=happiness=more seratonin is the common thought but see it as love=happiness incl. persistant thoughts which are not necessarily sad. OCD people are not always depressed. The thing with NT is that many play multiple roles in subtle ways. Just because we've simplified their workings doesn't mean that is teh clear cut explanation/symptom for it. Taking E may elevate levels but alcohol reduces levels. However, not everyone who drinks is aggressive (typical association).
  • Re: Love
     Reply #92 - June 07, 2010, 08:26 AM

    is this scientifically proven or is it a scientific idea? - just wondering - i'm pretty sure it's the latter. i don't think it's been shown that release of adrenaline, dopamine and serotonin 'causes' love. rather i think it's been shown there are increased levels of these chemical when people are in love - hence they could simply be involved in causing specific emotions relating to love rather than 'cause' the feeling called love.

    No its not scientifically proven, but how I have always seen it.  Could be wrong but I wasnt referring to the chemicals you mentioned.  It could be another impulse/set of chemicals that releases these chemicals and cause the feeling called love.

    Similar thing to happiness, depression, excitement, fear etc.  All I am trying to do is break away from any immediate secondary body involvement (such as spirit, or God) and just making a direct link between our senses, memory, brain = feelings.

    Anyhow, off to Edinburgh for a holiday now, so wont be able to reply...

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Love
     Reply #93 - June 07, 2010, 01:59 PM

    One of the things we read in my Philosophy of Sexuality course was on types/styles of Love.


    Why do you get to do courses like that and I don't Angry

    I wanna be on this degree! Life isn't fair!



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Love
     Reply #94 - June 07, 2010, 02:04 PM

    Philosophy of Sexuality, there has to be a chapter on Elvis Presley otherwise its fail.
  • Re: Love
     Reply #95 - June 13, 2010, 05:52 PM



    If all mental process are physical in nature and we make a philosophical experiment about somebody who has complete knowledge of all physical processes, we do not reach a contradiction about him not being able to "truly know" what certain feelings are... because in that case he should be able (by hypothesis of "complete knowledge of all physical processes") to simulate such feelings in mental processes within a virtual world in his own imagination.


    tialoc, I apologise for angering you. I'd hate for you to feel that I am being confrontational and hope you can accept my apology.  Smiley

    I think we need to reach a consensus first of all on what it means to have knowledge of a physical process. To me, at least, a physical process is only known through bare difference. As an example, we can think of the parameter spin of elementary particles. We do not know what spin is in and of itself but we do know that spin values change from one particle to another - it is either 1/2 or 1 (and the same in negative values). However, knowing the bare difference between values of spin on different particles gives us no clue about what spin is itself - all we know is its quantity.
    Now, we can make one of two observations. First of all, we can say that we know everything there is to know about the physics invloved because we can accurately measure quantum experiments (employing spin values) upto ten decimal places. The physical process is completely known but I don't think it's possible to simulate the idea of spin in one's mind through just knowing it's quantitative value. Certainly I have no idea what the sensation of 1/2-spin on an electron will feel like to simulate but I am not the final authority of course.
    Secondly, we could say that there is nothing more to spin but its quantitative value. It has no appearance or sound or feel - it just is a quantity.

    In both cases, however, I don't see how knowing the full physical value of something has helped us know the experience of it. In the first case we cannot extrapolate to the quality of an object from its quantity and in the second we agree that the quantity has no qualitatitve content and thus is useless in explaining sensations anyway.

    I would state and perhaps this is where we are disagreeing, that there is nothing more to knowing about something physically than knowing its quantitative value - the parameters that physical explanations work within don't allow any intrinsic value or sensation. Another instance is that of colour. We know that red has a certain wavelength and that it is an electromagnetic wave and that it travels at the speed of light. Now, knowing the wavelength and its speed and its fequency is only knowing about bare differences in quantitative value. Can somebody who has never seen red really know the sensation of red by knowing that it has a different wavelength to blue? Does that give us enough knowledge of red to "simulate" the colour?
    I would, I'm afraid, have to say no to that. If we were to add the sensation of red into the full physical description of red then it is no longer a physical description.

    You also made an interesting point about whether love itself is a mental or physical process. To this, I think all we can say is that we are concerned with the sensation of love perhaps not love itself. The question about knowledge of love is limited to knowing the experience of it from the physical parameters of quantitative values in bare difference from one another without any content of value whatsoever.

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Love
     Reply #96 - July 04, 2010, 05:47 AM

    Love is a symptom of -- and solution to -- existential angst.
  • Re: Love
     Reply #97 - July 04, 2010, 06:41 AM

    Love is a symptom of -- and solution to -- existential angst.


     Afro sig worthy

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Love
     Reply #98 - August 11, 2010, 09:16 PM

     Cry

    Why's it so complicated.

    I understand the related OCD phenomena - I used to have it more intensely when I first fell in love, I still have it, I can't go a day without thinking about him at the least once. I used to think about him most of the day at the start.

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Love
     Reply #99 - August 11, 2010, 09:22 PM

    It's a beautiful complication.  Smiley

    Don't worry, you will soon overcome this feeling... it won't be as intense.

    'The greatest glory of living lies not in never falling but in rising everytime you fall'
  • Re: Love
     Reply #100 - August 11, 2010, 09:23 PM

    It's nothing that can be entirely explained by a textbook. You'll get over it...eventually. Then it wont hurt to think about him and you'll be able to take off those rose-tinted glasses Smiley

    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: Love
     Reply #101 - August 11, 2010, 09:34 PM

    It's a beautiful complication.  Smiley

    Don't worry, you will soon overcome this feeling... it won't be as intense.


    It's nothing that can be entirely explained by a textbook. You'll get over it...eventually. Then it wont hurt to think about him and you'll be able to take off those rose-tinted glasses Smiley


    Sometimes I wish this emotion didn't exist (in the personal/romantic sense)!. General love for people and the world is good.

     far away hug

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Love
     Reply #102 - August 11, 2010, 09:38 PM

    Cry

    Why's it so complicated.

    I understand the related OCD phenomena - I used to have it more intensely when I first fell in love, I still have it, I can't go a day without thinking about him at the least once. I used to think about him most of the day at the start.

    You cannot control your emotions, Stardust. hugs  The mind works in mysterious ways.  wacko
    I kinda know what you are feeling.  I got a slight taste of it recently.
    I'm sure you have geeked up on 'heartbreak'.  (Although geeking up on topics doesn't cure the problem; it only satisfies one's intellectual curiousity.) whistling2

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Love
     Reply #103 - August 11, 2010, 09:42 PM

    "Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley

     yes
  • Re: Love
     Reply #104 - August 12, 2010, 01:13 PM

    You cannot control your emotions, Stardust. hugs  The mind works in mysterious ways.  wacko


    :-/ ... true.

    I'm sure you have geeked up on 'heartbreak'.  (Although geeking up on topics doesn't cure the problem; it only satisfies one's intellectual curiousity.) whistling2


    LOL! Very true!
  • Re: Love
     Reply #105 - April 01, 2011, 03:05 AM

    Bump

    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: Love
     Reply #106 - April 01, 2011, 06:35 PM

    You cannot control your emotions, Stardust. hugs  


    Not necessarily true. You may not be able to completely control them internally. But you can control the external manifestation of those emotions. It just takes practice, lots and lots of practice.

    The mind works in mysterious ways.  wacko   


    This is very true.   Smiley


    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I remain.
  • Re: Love
     Reply #107 - April 01, 2011, 06:38 PM

    WTF?

    I replied in a Necro'd thread?

    Fuck!

    Now I have to punish myself by sticking my hands in boiling water.


    No offense to you Eph...

    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I remain.
  • Re: Love
     Reply #108 - September 23, 2012, 12:45 AM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0KNt2DLpzI

     grin12 meet Anthony de Mello  Wink
  • Re: Love
     Reply #109 - September 23, 2012, 01:08 AM


      Hmmm..Love.. 

    Hmm  billy and his  Indian guru Anthony de Mello.,


     I think at the end he became too big to his Christan boots., AMRIKAN  Catholics got rid of him

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Love
     Reply #110 - September 23, 2012, 10:20 AM

    He was an unorthodox Christian and was seen as being too secular in his outlook.



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Love
     Reply #111 - September 23, 2012, 11:55 PM

    i can do without his mention of "god" but it seems almost like he's not really talking about "spirituality " but more of an emtional state, ... i like him, and like i said before, i was seriously surprised to discover he was part of any religious following..
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