Miracles of martyrdom

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- Toona
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Miracles of martyrdom
OP - August 27, 2013, 01:29 PM

I was raised to be a Jihadist, and I know exactly how it feels to be obsessed with Jihad and martyrdom. Some family members still are. I had forgotten how powerful the feeling that drives these desires are.

My brother got himself 10 years in prison for that. He's been out for a few months now, and he keeps sending links to articles and videos about the subject. But I'm not worried about him. He's harmless. However, these links reminded me of what can make Muslims feel so strongly about their beliefs that their ultimate wish would be to die for it.

It bothers me. I know that people of all religions claim to experience miracles that affirm their beliefs, and that's the reason I stopped believing the stories told by Muslims. This particular issue, however, still bothers me a little. It's hard for me not to feel something when I search YouTube for "smiling dead" or so, and see that almost all the relevant results are of Muslim martyrs.

It's easy to imagine that when you spend a good portion of your life obsessed with the idea of martyrdom that when you're on the verge of death you'd feel peace and happiness, because you've finally gotten your ultimate wish, although for the smile to hold after the muscles die out is a little weird.

Then of course there are the stories of martyrs' corpses not decomposing, but that's easier to debunk, and I haven't seen any proof that this actually occurs. Plus, apparently, it happens to Christians too, and they even have a name for them: The incorruptibles.

I think this is a serious matter. As silly as it may seem to some of you, this is the kind of thing that drives a person to blow themselves up in the name of Islam. These are the kind of "miracles" that are effective on a subconscious level, and are the perfect tool for brainwashing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpJnp9B3V6E
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Reply #1 - August 27, 2013, 01:55 PM

It doesn't seem silly. Anyone flippant about it is a moron. It's disturbing on so many levels.

Mind if I ask which country you're from and for more info on being raised to be a martyr? Considering your own experience posting on this site may be a huge benefit to others.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Miracles of martyrdom
Reply #2 - August 27, 2013, 02:25 PM

Saudi Arabia. My father was and still is quite obsessed with Jihad and martyrdom, and he wouldn't stop talking about it. He was convinced that war was about to destroy civilization, and raised us to believe that. That's why in the first 20+ years of my life I had no desire to live a real life. I didn't care about school, college or any of that. I've spent many years trying to grow out of that mindset, and convince myself that there's more to life than what I've been taught.

I'd be eager to answer any questions.
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Reply #3 - August 27, 2013, 02:52 PM

When you say war will destroy civilisation, how exactly will that happen? Will jihadists go to fight and kill to prevent that from happening, or is the goal of jihad as you were raised to believe it to wipe out civilisation?

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Miracles of martyrdom
Reply #4 - August 27, 2013, 03:12 PM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on August 27, 2013, 02:52 PM
When you say war will destroy civilisation, how exactly will that happen? Will jihadists go to fight and kill to prevent that from happening, or is the goal of jihad as you were raised to believe it to wipe out civilisation?

It was something that was just destined to happen, regardless of who's involved. The scenario that the hadiths describe for the end of the world is quite different from the current one. For instance, they imply that the final wars that involved the Dajjal and the second coming of Jesus were to utilize old-fashioned weapons such as swords, and since these are now obsolete, the assumption was that civilization had to be wiped out for any of this to make sense.

There's also the story of the "Mahdi". He's supposed to come out and change the world, and the Jehadists I knew were obsessed with the idea.
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Reply #5 - August 27, 2013, 04:18 PM

Can you go into more detail? How exactly does it change the world? What will happen? I'm assuming it's to make a better world, but why would a better world be built on war and slaughter? What's so wrong with this world and if this world isn't to your liking why not try and make the world a better place through peaceful means?

Honestly what you say just brings more questions. It sounds like a cult of death.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Miracles of martyrdom
Reply #6 - August 27, 2013, 04:57 PM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on August 27, 2013, 04:18 PM
Can you go into more detail? How exactly does it change the world? What will happen? I'm assuming it's to make a better world, but why would a better world be built on war and slaughter? What's so wrong with this world and if this world isn't to your liking why not try and make the world a better place through peaceful means?

Honestly what you say just brings more questions. It sounds like a cult of death.

It's all about the end-of-the-world mythology Islam offers. It's not about making the world a better place. Not directly anyway. Are you familiar with Islam's image of the end of times? That would be a very long topic. The basic idea is that Muslims are promised complete victory and domination, but these things will only happen after certain events occur. So, rather than seeking practical solutions, they just play their role by fighting in the name of Allah while they wait for the promised victory. That's the way I see it now anyway. The main focus isn't to achieve actual results, but to fight and die in glory.
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Reply #7 - August 27, 2013, 06:26 PM

Cult of death sum it up or I am being flippant?

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Miracles of martyrdom
Reply #8 - August 27, 2013, 06:33 PM

Perhaps it does. I'm not certain of the implications of that expression.
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Reply #9 - August 27, 2013, 06:42 PM

Quote from: Toona on August 27, 2013, 06:33 PM
Perhaps it does. I'm not certain of the implications of that expression.

Hello Toona., I read a wrong heading to the thread.. "Miracles of martyrdom" .. I don't see any miracle there I see the madness .. sheer madness..

so it should be "Madness of martyrdom"

with best wishes
yeezevee

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Miracles of martyrdom
Reply #10 - August 27, 2013, 06:46 PM

Islamic eschatology. Interesting subject. Delving into it and believing in it, can detrimentally affect your life. Like Toona, there was a significant length of time where I didn't aspire to anything or have a desire to live a real life, partly because of end time prophesies. Don't know if I can fully snap out of it even now. Islam, if looked at critically, does come across as a doomsday cult that's been shitting people up for more than 1000 years.
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Reply #11 - August 27, 2013, 08:19 PM

We have satalites orbiting the earth, we can see the whole world, and no one has yet to spot the wall keeping the Ya'jooj and Ma'jooj at bay. We can see Hadrian's Wall from space but not that?

Show me a wall that magically repairs itself every morning and I will believe.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Miracles of martyrdom
Reply #12 - August 27, 2013, 08:35 PM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on August 27, 2013, 08:19 PM
We have satalites orbiting the earth, we can see the whole world, and no one has yet to spot the wall keeping the Ya'jooj and Ma'jooj at bay. We can see Hadrian's Wall from space but not that?

Show me a wall that magically repairs itself every morning and I will believe.

The current popular theory is that it's underground, and that's why nobody's found it yet.
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Reply #13 - August 27, 2013, 08:36 PM

What's the theory on why allah is trying so hard to make us think he doesn't exist?

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Miracles of martyrdom
Reply #14 - August 27, 2013, 09:13 PM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on August 27, 2013, 08:36 PM
What's the theory on why allah is trying so hard to make us think he doesn't exist?

That he's testing us. He wants us to take his word over common sense. The real question is, why does he favor the gullible?
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Reply #15 - August 27, 2013, 09:30 PM

It's just nonsense. I'm amazed people still believe it but happy the non religious are the fastest growing group.

I really would like you to go into detail about your experiences and insight into how exactly this sort of thinking works. The mind-set of the jihadi and the reasoning of the people sprouting this rubbish.

Care to share a few stories?

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Miracles of martyrdom
Reply #16 - August 28, 2013, 07:30 PM

Religions have come and gone throughout history.
Ancient Egyptian religion
Greek religions
Ancient tribal religions etc.

To predict that people will leave Islam and become non-religious isn't much of a prophecy.

Sorry you had to deal with that Toona. Well on the bright side you didn't succumb to it.

***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
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Reply #17 - August 28, 2013, 07:51 PM

I'm still hoping to hear a few stories. This is something alien to me, I don't even know what to ask because I don't understand enough.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Miracles of martyrdom
Reply #18 - August 29, 2013, 08:33 AM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on August 27, 2013, 09:30 PM
It's just nonsense. I'm amazed people still believe it but happy the non religious are the fastest growing group.

I really would like you to go into detail about your experiences and insight into how exactly this sort of thinking works. The mind-set of the jihadi and the reasoning of the people sprouting this rubbish.

Care to share a few stories?

People believing in religious crap would be a lot less common if they weren't conditioned to believe it from such a young age.

I'll share something soon. Stay tuned.
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Reply #19 - August 29, 2013, 09:49 AM

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #20 - August 29, 2013, 10:01 AM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on August 27, 2013, 09:30 PM
I really would like you to go into detail about your experiences and insight into how exactly this sort of thinking works. The mind-set of the jihadi and the reasoning of the people sprouting this rubbish.

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