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 Topic: Are there any "model" countries that have a majority Muslim population?

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  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Are there any "model" countries that have a majority Muslim population?
     OP - July 19, 2013, 01:01 AM
    A country where, despite having a majority Muslim population, the laws are modern and reasonable, and the de facto practices within society are reasonable?



  • Are there any "model" countries that have a majority Muslim population?
     Reply #1 - July 19, 2013, 01:40 AM
    Thinking hard

    Bosnia-Herzegovina? It has problems with corruption and nepotism in the governing and administrative apparatus, though. And all that bad shit from the war. And discrimination against Romas and Jews. And I know from Danish-Bosnian friends that they (or rather their families back in Bosnia) treated the impoverished Bosnian Romas like shit when they lived there (before they fled to Denmark).
    But the inhabitants are mostly Muslims and they seem to be pretty big on democracy and grassroot movements in the Muslim part of the country. It also has a lot of creative people - artists and stuff.

    Dunno about Kosova these days.

    Iraqi Kurdistan? No idea how good or bad it is governed... But the Kurds in Syria (or the Kurd militias there) are secular and even democratic.

    However, many seem to be looking at Turkey as a country between modernism and traditionalism, between east and west, between Islam, Christianity and secularism. But as you probably know, they have plenty of issues there to work out before really being a model society.
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  • Are there any "model" countries that have a majority Muslim population?
     Reply #2 - July 19, 2013, 01:55 AM
    Honestly, I can't find one I would call a "model country" Cry

    Even looked at human rights records of Gambia and Senegal and weird small states.

    Bummer. lipsrsealed
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  • Are there any "model" countries that have a majority Muslim population?
     Reply #3 - July 19, 2013, 02:06 AM
    Malaysia?
    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Are there any "model" countries that have a majority Muslim population?
     Reply #4 - July 19, 2013, 03:31 AM
    Quote from: olweasel on July 19, 2013, 02:06 AM
    Malaysia?

    Malaysia has issues - like it by constitution is that every ethnic Malay is a Muslim. But many of them are actually Hindus, Buddhists and Catholics and worship covertly.

    Also being Malay (and thus per the constitution Muslim) grants some additional rights over non-Malays (non-Muslims). 

    A non-Muslim Malay is not a Malay - as per law. And if one apostates or convert to another religion, one loses the additional rights granted to "proper" Malays.

    Sharia courts are in place as well. But not applied to non-Muslims. And it is "light" compared to other Muslim countries' Sharia systems.

    Freedom of press is limited.
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  • Are there any "model" countries that have a majority Muslim population?
     Reply #5 - July 19, 2013, 04:17 AM
    A Chinese-Malay friend left Malaysia when he realised he would never be equal before the law. Day-to-day prejudices he could live with.
  • Are there any "model" countries that have a majority Muslim population?
     Reply #6 - July 19, 2013, 04:21 AM
    Turkey has some protestors trying their best to make it happen from what I understand. But recently they were crushed.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Are there any "model" countries that have a majority Muslim population?
     Reply #7 - July 19, 2013, 08:27 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on July 19, 2013, 04:21 AM
    Turkey has some protestors trying their best to make it happen from what I understand. But recently they were crushed.


    If the comparison is with western neoliberalism (individuated capitalistic humanism) then Turkey is neoliberal with certain problems when it comes to the rights of intellectuals. The protests are more ideological than anything else — a symptom that plagues the Turkish far left, unfortunately.

    Reactionaries suffused with a hardy dose of kemalism.
  • Are there any "model" countries that have a majority Muslim population?
     Reply #8 - July 19, 2013, 02:02 PM
    Quote from: schizo on July 19, 2013, 08:27 AM
    If the comparison is with western neoliberalism (individuated capitalistic humanism) then Turkey is neoliberal with certain problems when it comes to the rights of intellectuals. The protests are more ideological than anything else — a symptom that plagues the Turkish far left, unfortunately.

    Reactionaries suffused with a hardy dose of kemalism.

    I think you are being a bit too negative on the learning and experiences of the Gezi Park protests. There is a lot of positive energy in that movement and people have surprised themselves how they have been able to set their differences aside and protest for their collective and individual freedoms.

    Good read here: Gezi Parks Everywhere or How I Learned to Love the Flag

    I know for certain that some Arab activists are looking VERY closely at the Gezi Park protests and their grass root and pluralistic nature.

    The Turkey I remember from the news from when I was a kid was a place with martial law and the occasional news of yet another massacre.

    Progress. After all.

    LGBT a las barricadas:


    Dog getting treated for tear gas exposure:


    Sufi Dervish at protests in Ankara:


    Turkish and Kurdish (BDP is a primarily Kurdish party with ties to PKK) activists hand in hand:


    Loads of good reposts in by zeca in this thread
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  • Are there any "model" countries that have a majority Muslim population?
     Reply #9 - July 19, 2013, 02:29 PM
    What I meant to say is that most reforms to Turkish law have been instituted by Erdogan's neo-liberal (conservative) government.

    The Gezi park protests are definitely positive, if not for the fact that they reaffirm the desire to return to a shared universal for the population of Turkey. Erdogan was being undiplomatic with his neo-ottoman revivalist speeches.

    Anyway:
    türk sol( turkısh left)>devrimci müslümanlar (socıalıst muslıms)>kemalists>militant laicists>türkeşciler (turkısh natıonalısts, MHP),bozkurtlar (Grey Wolves — Ultra nationalists and fascists).

    I think my healthy dose of scepticism is warranted. All we can conclusively say is that the protesters were against the encroachment of an arab-derived suni islam.
  • Are there any "model" countries that have a majority Muslim population?
     Reply #10 - July 19, 2013, 02:53 PM
    Quote from: Nikolaj on July 19, 2013, 01:40 AM
    Iraqi Kurdistan? No idea how good or bad it is governed... But the Kurds in Syria (or the Kurd militias there) are secular and even democratic.


    Kurdistan is not a country.

    I think the most secular "Islamic" nations are those ex-Soviet republics like Uzbekistan, Kazakstan, Azerbeijan, etc. I think they are the most progressive in that the people seem to have adopted modern values, although religion is starting to make a come back there in the post Soviet era.
  • Are there any "model" countries that have a majority Muslim population?
     Reply #11 - July 19, 2013, 03:16 PM
    Quote from: Tonyt on July 19, 2013, 02:53 PM
    Kurdistan is not a country.

    I know. I was just being creative whistling2

    Quote from: Tonyt on July 19, 2013, 02:53 PM
    I think the most secular "Islamic" nations are those ex-Soviet republics like Uzbekistan, Kazakstan, Azerbeijan, etc. I think they are the most progressive in that the people seem to have adopted modern values, although religion is starting to make a come back there in the post Soviet era.

    Look at their human rights records. The Uzbekistan regime boiled - yes, boiled - some of their political opponents. And just plain gunned down protesters in 2005.

    Plenty of issues in Azerbaijan, Kazakstan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan as well.

    Their regimes might be somewhat secular though - just like Saddam Hussein's and Assad's.

    Regarding the re-emerge of Islam it seem to be big on Islamism and Jihadism when it manifests. When between a rock and a hard place, it is rarely the middle road people end up taking.
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  • Are there any "model" countries that have a majority Muslim population?
     Reply #12 - July 19, 2013, 03:54 PM
    Quote from: schizo on July 19, 2013, 02:29 PM
    What I meant to say is that most reforms to Turkish law have been instituted by Erdogan's neo-liberal (conservative) government.

    The Gezi park protests are definitely positive, if not for the fact that they reaffirm the desire to return to a shared universal for the population of Turkey. Erdogan was being undiplomatic with his neo-ottoman revivalist speeches.


    Sometimes Erdogan comes out as a moderate man compared to other people in AKP:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gWApki3dPA
    Danish-Turks (of all kinds - we have a lot of Kurds here) are face palming over this video.

    Quote from: schizo on July 19, 2013, 02:29 PM
    I think my healthy dose of scepticism is warranted. All we can conclusively say is that the protesters were against the encroachment of an arab-derived suni islam.

    Might be. There are lot of reactionary people there and not just in AKP.
    I think is about the general taking away of their freedoms - individually and collectively - using an unwanted religious context in a country where many are proud of the secularism and individual freedom to believe or not (compared to other Muslim majority countries). Also the media blackout (PENGUINS!), stories of corruption and nepotism of the Erdogan regime are making people angry.
    And that park is the last open, green area to meet and hang out in in downtown Istanbul, as far as I understand. Which is why so many different groups joined efforts in the initial peaceful protests against an (illegal) demolition of the park. And when the hard reaction came, people found out they have common interests against an oppressive regime (albeit "democratically" elected).

    I hope the spirit of Gezi Park protests will spread out in the country to influence voters and revive that spirit come election time. Fingers crossed.

    That of course requires there are worthy politicians to vote into office...
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