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 Topic: Please help me with Banu Qurayza story

 (Read 4493 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
     OP - March 09, 2013, 04:41 PM

    Hi Everybody!

    Other day, I had a debate about Islam with my twin brother who is very religious muslim.  The debate lasted for an hour. At some point,  I explained him about  the gonocide of Banu Qurayza to which he said it was a bullshit made up by west and wanted me to prove him.  He said that he only believes in texts from :

    1) Quran
    and two books on hadiths which are these:
    2) Attainment of the Objective ( Bulugh Al-Maram) compiled by Al-Hafix Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani
    3)Collection from Riyad-us-Saliheen compiled by Al-Imam Abu Zakariya Yahya bin Sharaf An-Nawawi Ad-Dimashqi

    Guys, do you know the Hadith numbers and Sura numbers on those books where Banu Qurayza story is mentioned?  I really want to prove him. I'll tell you his reaction to the story Smiley

    "The future is bright; only we can get there faster"
  • Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
     Reply #1 - March 09, 2013, 04:45 PM

    Can you tell us what type of muslim he is ?

    Like where does he fall onto in this chart ?


    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
     Reply #2 - March 09, 2013, 04:52 PM

    Reply to TheDarkRebel:

    He is Sunni, I don't think he knows the divisions in sunni islam.  He is only aware of  sunni, shia and wahabists in general.  He isn't even aware of sufi. He defines himself as sunni muslim.

    "The future is bright; only we can get there faster"
  • Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
     Reply #3 - March 09, 2013, 05:12 PM

    Hi Everybody!
    Quote
    ..........................................

    1) Quran
    and two books on hadiths which are these:
    2) Attainment of the Objective ( Bulugh Al-Maram) compiled by Al-Hafix Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani
    3)Collection from Riyad-us-Saliheen compiled by Al-Imam Abu Zakariya Yahya bin Sharaf An-Nawawi Ad-Dimashqi


    Guys, do you know the Hadith numbers and Sura numbers on those books where Banu Qurayza story is mentioned?  I really want to prove him. I'll tell you his reaction to the story Smiley

    Hello Meylis .. Glad you are going around to debate but try to be funny and cool when you are debating Islam specially with friends and family members.. Often you loose them and sometimes you get hurt..

    Any ways .. this may help your discussion/debate

    Quote
    (Book #59, Hadith #364): Narrated Anas bin Malik: Some people used to allot some date palm trees to the Prophet as gift till he conquered BANU Quraiza and Bani An-Nadir, where upon he started returning their date palms to them.

    (Book #59, Hadith #443) Narrated 'Aisha: When the Prophet returned from Al-Khandaq (i.e. Trench) and laid down his arms and took a bath, Gabriel came and said (to the Prophet ), You have laid down your arms? By Allah, we angels have not laid them down yet. So set out for them." The Prophet said, "Where to go?" Gabriel said, "Towards this side," pointing towards BANU Quraiza. So the Prophet went out towards them. 

    (Book #59, Hadith #444) Narrated Anas: As if I am just now looking at the dust rising in the street of BANU Ghanm (in Medina) because of the marching of Gabriel's regiment when Allah's Apostle set out to BANU Quraiza (to attack them)

    (Book #59, Hadith #445) Narrated Ibn Umar: On the day of Al-Ahzab (i.e. Clans) the Prophet said, "None of you Muslims) should offer the 'Asr prayer but at BANU Quraiza's place." The 'Asr prayer became due for some of them on the way. Some of those said, "We will not offer it till we reach it, the place of BANU Quraiza," while some others said, "No, we will pray at this spot, for the Prophet did not mean that for us." Later on It was mentioned to the Prophet and he did not berate any of the two groups. 

    (Book #59, Hadith #446)  Narrated Anas: Some (of the Ansar) used to present date palm trees to the Prophet till BANU Quraiza and BANU An-Nadir were conquered (then he returned to the people their date palms). My people ordered me to ask the Prophet to return some or all the date palms they had given to him, but the Prophet had given those trees to Um Aiman. On that, Um Aiman came and put the garment around my neck and said, "No, by Him except Whom none has the right to be worshipped, he will not return those trees to you as he (i.e. the Prophet ) has given them to me." The Prophet go said (to her), "Return those trees and I will give you so much (instead of them)." But she kept on refusing, saying, "No, by Allah," till he gave her ten times the number of her date palms. 

    (Book #59, Hadith #447)  Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The people of (BANU) Quraiza agreed to accept the verdict of Sad bin Mu'adh. So the Prophet sent for Sad, and the latter came (riding) a donkey and when he approached the Mosque, the Prophet said to the Ansar, "Get up for your chief or for the best among you." Then the Prophet said (to Sad)." These (i.e. BANU Quraiza) have agreed to accept your verdict." Sad said, "Kill their (men) warriors and take their offspring as captives, "On that the Prophet said, "You have judged according to Allah's Judgment," or said, "according to the King's judgment." 

    (Book #59, Hadith #448)  Narrated 'Aisha: Sad was wounded on the day of Khandaq (i.e. Trench) when a man from Quraish, called Hibban bin Al-'Araqa hit him (with an arrow). The man was Hibban bin Qais from (the tribe of) Bani Mais bin 'Amir bin Lu'ai who shot an arrow at Sad's medial arm vein (or main artery of the arm). The Prophet pitched a tent (for Sad) in the Mosque so that he might be near to the Prophet to visit. When the Prophet returned from the (battle) of Al-Khandaq (i.e. Trench) and laid down his arms and took a bath Gabriel came to him while he (i.e. Gabriel) was shaking the dust off his head, and said, "You have laid down the arms?" By Allah, I have not laid them down. Go out to them (to attack them)." The Prophet said, "Where?" Gabriel pointed towards Bani Quraiza. So Allah's Apostle went to them (i.e. BANU Quraiza) (i.e. besieged them). They then surrendered to the Prophet's judgment but he directed them to Sad to give his verdict concerning them. Sad said, "I give my judgment that their warriors should be killed, their women and children should be taken as captives, and their properties distributed." Narrated Hisham: My father informed me that 'Aisha said, "Sad said, "O Allah! You know that there is nothing more beloved to me than to fight in Your Cause against those who disbelieved Your Apostle and turned him out (of Mecca). O Allah! I think you have put to an end the fight between us and them (i.e. Quraish infidels). And if there still remains any fight with the Quraish (infidels), then keep me alive till I fight against them for Your Sake. But if you have brought the war to an end, then let this wound burst and cause my death thereby.' So blood gushed from the wound. There was a tent in the Mosque belonging to BANU Ghifar who were surprised by the blood flowing towards them . They said, 'O people of the tent! What is this thing which is coming to us from your side?' Behold! Blood was flowing profusely out of Sad's wound. Sad then died because of that." 


    And they are all from Sahih Bukhari books..

    with best wishes
    yeezevee
     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
     Reply #4 - March 09, 2013, 06:01 PM

    Well if he is sunni any hadith from Sahih Muslim or Sahih Bukhari will do just fine..


    I'm too lazy to search for them but here is a link

    Hadiths

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
     Reply #5 - March 09, 2013, 07:02 PM

    You can find all the references you need in this wikipedia article:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza

    The detailed description of what happened is from the Sirah of Ibn Ishaq. But some Hadiths in Sunan Abu Da'ud briefly mention the incident in passing. Both Ibn Ishaq and Abu Da'ud say that it was Muhammad himself who was holding the sword and beheading the prisoners.

    http://sunnah.com/abudawud/40/54

    http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=14&translator=3&start=28&number=2665

    From Ibn Ishaq:

    Quote
    Then the apostle went out into the market of Medina (which is still the market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches.......there were 600 or 700, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900.

    Pg. 690 of Arabic version, pg. 464 of English translation.

    When one of the Jews said they would soon meet their loved ones, Abu Bakr said:

    Quote
    "Yes by Allah he will meet them in hell for ever and ever"

    pg. 692 of Arabic version, pg. 465 of English translation.
  • Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
     Reply #6 - March 09, 2013, 07:18 PM

    Thank you guys for the quick replies! thnkyu
    The problem is that he only trusts hadiths from Bulugh Al-maram and Riyad-us-Saliheen. Do you know any hadiths from those sources? I've been searching all over internet, but could not find from those two. I got hadiths from Salih al-Bukhari, Salih muslim, Sunan abi-Dawud, but not Bulugh Al-maram and riyad-us-saliheen.
    Sorry, guys, for taking your time.

    "The future is bright; only we can get there faster"
  • Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
     Reply #7 - March 09, 2013, 07:30 PM

    Quote
    Sorry, guys, for taking your time.

    no..no..no don't be sorry.. we are all here to educate our-self and others Meylis..
    .............................................
    The problem is that he only trusts hadiths from Bulugh Al-maram and Riyad-us-Saliheen. Do you know any hadiths from those sources? I've been searching all over internet, but could not find from those two. I got hadiths from Salih al-Bukhari, Salih muslim, Sunan abi-Dawud, but not Bulugh Al-maram and riyad-us-saliheen.


    well download that Bulugh bullshit from here

    Quote
    Bulugh al-Maram contains a total of 1358 hadiths. At the end of each hadith narrated in Bulugh al-Maram, al-Hafidh ibn Hajar mentions who collected that hadith originally. Bulugh al-Maram includes hadith drawn from numerous primary sources of hadith in it including, Sahih al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu Dawud, Jami at-Tirmidhi, Sunan al-Nasa'i, Sunan ibn Majah, and Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal and more.

    Bulugh al-Maram holds a unique distinction as all the hadith compiled in the book have been the foundation for Shafi'i Islamic Jurisprudence rulings.

    But we must note here  that Bulugh al-Maram  stuff comes out of Bukhari bullshit .. Anyways keep in touch  the folks here will help in such discussions..

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
     Reply #8 - March 09, 2013, 07:42 PM

    ............... and riyad-us-saliheen. ...........................
    ........

    RYADUSSALIHEEN.pdf
     Riyadus Saliheen Translation by Ustadha Aisha Bewley

    Quote
    Riyadh as-Saaliheen (رياض الصالحين), translated: "The Gardens of the Righteous", is a compilation of verses from the Qur'an and hadith by Imam Nawawi.  In total, it contains 680 hadith divided into 372 chapters, many of which are introduced by verses of the Quran. It contains strong hadiths from Al-Bukhari and Muslim and is well regarded by the scholars of hadith.  Books of commentary on the hadith in Riyadh as-Saaliheen have been written, including the most recent, by Muhammad ibn al Uthaymeen d. 1421H.


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
     Reply #9 - March 09, 2013, 08:01 PM

    Thanks a lot Yezeevee! I read other posts of yours on different threads - I like reading them. My favorite one is the one on one match with Akahoshi (the indian in Saud Arabia). You really nailed that guy. Well done you! Afro  and  thnkyu

    "The future is bright; only we can get there faster"
  • Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
     Reply #10 - March 09, 2013, 08:18 PM

    Thank you guys for the quick replies! thnkyu
    The problem is that he only trusts hadiths from Bulugh Al-maram and Riyad-us-Saliheen. Do you know any hadiths from those sources? I've been searching all over internet, but could not find from those two. I got hadiths from Salih al-Bukhari, Salih muslim, Sunan abi-Dawud, but not Bulugh Al-maram and riyad-us-saliheen.
    Sorry, guys, for taking your time.

     


    For sunni muslims Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari are THE MOST AUTHENTIC hadiths regardless of which madhab they follow.

    And Ibn Ishaq is also regarded as authentic among Sunni islamic theology.

    The two books you talk about might contain quotes of hadiths but they are not hadith books themselves.

    Either your brother is not a sunni muslim or he does not know anything about Islam in which case arguing with him is pointless.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
     Reply #11 - March 09, 2013, 08:43 PM

    Reply to TheDark Rebel:

    ow I get it now. In fact, I'm just going to show your post next time he complains about the source.  And you right - talking to him is , most of the time, pointless.

    "The future is bright; only we can get there faster"
  • Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
     Reply #12 - March 09, 2013, 08:58 PM

    My mistake Bugh al Maram and Riyadh us Saliheen are hadith books.

    But they are not regarded as authentic as Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim.


    In other words it is possible for a sunni muslim to accept bukhari and muslim while rejecting the two books you mentioned HOWEVER it is impossible for a sunni muslim to accept bugh al maram and riyadh us saleheen while rejecting sahih muslim and sahih bukhari.


    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
     Reply #13 - March 09, 2013, 09:48 PM

    To TheDarkRebel: Got it, thanks!

    "The future is bright; only we can get there faster"
  • Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
     Reply #14 - July 24, 2013, 11:05 AM

    I always find it funny how Muslims are convinced of all these conspiracy theories about the West. What about the East? Russia, China, Japan, Australia, Thailand, all these places also have unveiled women, islam as a minority religion, high atheism, acceptance of scientific facts, etc. Why keep picking on the West only?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Please help me with Banu Qurayza story
     Reply #15 - July 24, 2013, 01:39 PM

    You've made a good point. I've never thought about it actually.
    Maybe because most sources of the truth come from the west. So west, sort of, became a defense mechanism against  denial.  Also, because of the rivalry between Muslims and Christians. Europeans have always been closer geographically.
     I gotta make so research about that.
     sheikh Muslimah Jew Nun Old geezer

    "The future is bright; only we can get there faster"
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