5000 Muslims rally against radical Islam

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- Al-Alethia
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Reply #30 - June 23, 2014, 04:09 PM

Sure Anywho, is there a difference between Wahhabis and Salafis?
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Reply #31 - June 23, 2014, 04:16 PM

Quote from: Al-Alethia on June 23, 2014, 04:09 PM
Sure Anywho, is there a difference between Wahhabis and Salafis?

Salafis will have bigger beard than wahhabis .. and both of these guys don't use the brain or don't have the brain.. Often preachers of these groups are bald and hairless on the head

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the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #32 - June 23, 2014, 04:22 PM

Wahhabism was a revivalist movement that came about in the 18th century championed by a bloke named Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, hence the name wahabis. Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab was opposed by his own father and brother for his non-traditional interpretation of islam. He managed to secure the aid of someone called Uthman ibn Mu'ammar and formed an alliance with the House of Muhammad ibn Saud which eventually gave birth to Saudi Arabia.

Really I don't think there's much of a difference between a wahabbi and a salafis, at least not practically. I'd have to look into it more.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #33 - June 23, 2014, 04:24 PM

Yes, there is a difference.

Wahhabi is a term used by those who do not adhere to the teachings of Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab to describe those who do. You will never hear a wahhabi call themselves wahhabi in the same way that you will never hear a Muslim call themselves a Muhammadan.

Salafi is an adjective that is derived from the word salaf. Salaf literally means that which came before, or predecessors. By attributing one's self to the "salafi" label, one is stating that they do things the way that they were done "before." Within salafi circles, this is defined as being the first three generations of Muslims, Muhammad's generation and the two that followed.

In reality, there were many forms of Islam that emerged and formed within those first 3 generations, so calling one's self salafi does not really help much. In practice, salafi dogma centers greatly around the teachings of Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (most "wahhabis" are really just ultra-conservative hanbalis), Ibn Taymiyya, Ibn al Qayyim, etc, with emphasis on ahadith deemed to be authentic by the earliest scholars of hadith - people like Imam Malik, Imam Ahmed, Sufyan ath-Thawri, etc.

The ones most responsible for spreading salafist ideology in this day and age are primarily the scholars of Saudi Arabia. Shaikh Ibn Baz, Shaikh Ash-Shinqitee, the current Mufti, etc. You also have a fringe, ultra ultra conservative group of non-jihadi salafis in people like Rabee al Madkhalee, Ubaid Al Jabiri, Muhammad bin Hadee, Salih al Fawzan, etc. Non-Saudi scholars recognized by this group include Shaikh Al- Albani, Shaikh Muqbil al Waadi'ee, etc.

Essentially, a bunch of ignorant men.

The terms salafi and wahhabi are often interchangeable outside of salafi circles because of the huge role Saudi Arabia has played in exporting salafism. Within those circles, though, "wahhabi" is considered a derogatory term.
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Reply #34 - June 23, 2014, 04:27 PM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on June 23, 2014, 04:22 PM
Wahhabism was a revivalist movement that came about in the 18th century championed by a bloke named Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, hence the name wahabis. Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab................

No..nooo...Nah.. there was hardly any Wahhabism until 1960s.. if it was there all that was with in that sand land...

AMRIKA and its oli hunger/money popularized that BREED OF .....

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #35 - June 23, 2014, 04:28 PM

happymurtad, I know you said outside of salafi circles, but with the real life implications is there really a difference in practical terms? Their world views seem so similar, and at times it really is hard to tell one from the other in the 21st century. They seem to repeat what the other says.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #36 - June 23, 2014, 04:30 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on June 23, 2014, 04:27 PM
No..nooo...Nah.. there was hardly any Wahhabism until 1960s.. if it was there all that was with in that sand land...

AMRIKA and its oli hunger/money popularized that BREED OF .....

That's when it managed to grow and expand. What I said is still correct as far as I know. They follow the islam of those I mentioned, right? An outlook championed by Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab and continued after his death by Saudi.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #37 - June 23, 2014, 04:36 PM

@HM
Thanks So Wahhabi = Salafi follower of Abdul-Wahhab, as opposed to Salafi who doesn't follow Abdul-Wahhab?

I know about Abdul-Wahhab and the Al-Sauds and the Salaf and Wahhabi being deragotary. I just assumed Salafis was what the hardcore Hanbalis called themselves and Wahhabis was what their detractors called them (which appears to be the case) but I've encountered one too many people who insisted there was a difference without explaining what the difference was.
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Reply #38 - June 23, 2014, 04:37 PM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on June 23, 2014, 04:28 PM
happymurtad, I know you said outside of salafi circles, but with the real life implications is there really a difference in practical terms? Their world views seem so similar, and at times it really is hard to tell one from the other in the 21st century. They seem to repeat what the other says.

From your perspective you probably would not see much difference. In the broadest sense, anyone can really use the word "salafi" if they want to. It's like putting "The Real" in front of your group's name. Issues of methodology that are disagreed upon among groups calling themselves salafi probably would not mean much to you. There are some really abstract disagreements that divide them, though you'll likely only see a bunch of beards.

The term "wahhabi" by definition shows a link to a Saudi brand of salafism. It is not a label that any of the groups would use themselves.

I think the biggest differences that you would notice would be between salafis and salafi jihadis.

Salafis, for the most part, view "obedience to those in authority" to be a key part of faith. Government overthrows or protesting against a government that claims Islam is not allowed to them. There are all sorts of textual proofs for this position that I won't get into right now. These types of salafis will be seen throwing their support behind regimes like the Saudi regime, the gulf monarchies, and even the North African governments. They will be ultra-conservative and mostly literal (what they would call orthodox) in their interpretations of scripture.

Salafi-Jihadists, on the other hand, will - in addition to the conservatism and literal interpretations - also advocate jihad against any government that does not rule by sharia. ISIS would be an example of this.
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Reply #39 - June 23, 2014, 04:42 PM

Since we've got a scholar in the house, I've heard many mainstream Muslims refer to Salafi jihadists (AQ, ISIS, etc) as khawarij. Is that accurate?
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Reply #40 - June 23, 2014, 04:45 PM

Yeah, kinda. I know you want more detail than that, so give me a moment to collect my thoughts. It's an easier thing to just talk about; there are a lot of points to be made. In fact, I might just upload a sound cloud. It's a really interesting discussion to me.
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Reply #41 - June 23, 2014, 04:50 PM

No worries, you've got all night to collect your thoughts. I gotta go to bed. I'll tune in tomorrow. G'night
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Reply #42 - June 23, 2014, 05:03 PM

Last year happymurtad called me his sheik and imam, today I find out I know more about ahmadiyya islam than CEMB god Hassan.

I feel clever.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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