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 Topic: David Cameron's recent speech on extremism

 (Read 5889 times)
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  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     OP - July 22, 2015, 08:46 AM

    I don't live in the UK, so I can't say much about the political positions of David Cameron, but I think this speech was very good. It addressed the issues at their core. Apparently Majid Nawaz helped Cameron with the speech, and you can see his fingerprints on certain parts of it. Kudos to Majid Nawaz for his efforts on this.

    Acknowledging and addressing the problematic elements within Islam, which nurtures extremists, violent and non-violent alike, will benefit everyone with muslim background, whether they believe in Islam or not. The "nothing to do with Islam" brigade has already been crying foul, hopefully they will over time become a minority.

    Full speech is lengthy, so just quoting some relevant parts, especially approve of the bolded parts

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-extremism-speech-read-the-transcript-in-full-10401948.html

    Quote
    We should challenge together the conspiracy theories about our Muslim communities too and I know how much pain these can cause. We must stand up to those who try to suggest that there is some kind of secret Muslim conspiracy to take over our government, or that Islam and Britain are somehow incompatible. People who say these things are trying to undermine our shared values and make Muslims feel like they don’t belong here, and we will not let these conspiracy theorists win.


    Quote
    Second, as we counter this ideology, a key part of our strategy must be to tackle both parts of the creed – the non-violent and violent. This means confronting groups and organisations that may not advocate violence – but which do promote other parts of the extremist narrative.

    We’ve got to show that if you say “yes I condemn terror – but the Kuffar are inferior”, or “violence in London isn’t justified, but suicide bombs in Israel are a different matter” – then you too are part of the problem. Unwittingly or not, and in a lot of cases it’s not unwittingly, you are providing succour to those who want to commit, or get others to commit to, violence.

    For example, I find it remarkable that some groups say “We don’t support ISIL” as if that alone proves their anti-extremist credentials. And let’s be clear Al-Qaeda don’t support ISIL. So we can’t let the bar sink to that level. Condemning a mass-murdering, child-raping organisation cannot be enough to prove you’re challenging the extremists. We must demand that people also condemn the wild conspiracy theories, the anti-Semitism, and the sectarianism too. Being tough on this is entirely keeping with our values. We should challenge every part of the hateful ideology spread by neo-Nazis – so why shouldn’t we here?


    Quote
    Now the third plank of our strategy is to embolden different voices within the Muslim community. Just as we do not engage with extremist groups and individuals, we’re now going to actively encourage the reforming and moderate Muslim voices. This is a significant shift in government approach – and an important one.

    In the past, governments have been too quick to dismiss the religious aspect of Islamist extremism. That is totally understandable. It cannot be said clearly enough: this extremist ideology is not true Islam. I have said it myself many, many times, and it’s absolutely right to do so. And I’ll say it again today.

    But simply denying any connection between the religion of Islam and the extremists doesn’t work, because these extremists are self-identifying as Muslims. The fact is from Woolwich to Tunisia, from Ottawa to Bali, these murderers all spout the same twisted narrative, one that claims to be based on a particular faith.

    Now it is an exercise in futility to deny that. And more than that, it can be dangerous. To deny it has anything to do with Islam means you disempower the critical reforming voices; the voices that are challenging the fusing of religion and politics; the voices that want to challenge the scriptural basis which extremists claim to be acting on; the voices that are crucial in providing an alternative worldview that could stop a teenager’s slide along the spectrum of extremism.

  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #1 - July 22, 2015, 09:38 AM

    I don't live in the UK, so I can't say much about the political positions of David Cameron, but I think this speech was very good.  ,........................

    well  let us put that here....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1s-9VDzxYk

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #2 - July 22, 2015, 11:08 AM

    It will be interesting to see if policy changes. I suspect I know what those changes are going to be if they are going to have an effect. But the question is will it make muslims more reformists or just less salafists/ultraorthodox.

    One thing that is going to be really difficult will be finding reformists and having them have an effect on muslims and bring enough supporters within the muslim community. I think Islam can change through evolution, but the idea of reformists muslims, with the support of critics of Islam/exmuslims/nonmuslim goverments (mainly), bringing a fully reformed Islam in line with secular values....I dont think is likely.
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #3 - July 22, 2015, 02:00 PM

    It doesn't make sense why some call David Cameron ''brave'' for his speech or David Cameron saying just a few weeks ago that they should not use 'Islamic State' on BBC meant that he was a ''coward''. It is as if goals are being set up just to declare victory.
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #4 - July 22, 2015, 02:12 PM

    David Cameron says : I refuse to call the Islamic State Islamic State

    Coward!

    David Cameron says : Islamic State is indeed Islamic.


     Brave!Historical shift!

    -----------------------------------------------

    Im old enough to remember David Camerons speech in 2010 in which he declared the failure of multiculturalism. Until there are changes in policies, we'll have to wait.
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #5 - July 22, 2015, 02:33 PM

    But how can anybody, let alone an all seeing and knowing head of state complain about a section of immigration disconnected from modern Britain, when aforementioned immigrants evolved over a thousand year period very differently from ourselves, and thus plead allegiance and loyalty to a disparate arabic ideology, fused in the most complex of manners with their own punjabi/pakistani cultural heritage, far removed from our own way of life and any notion of ridiculous ultra liberal, post modern western idealism? It just seems like a never ending carrousel. Because nothing is being achieved and I'm starting to feel nauseous. An honest insight into why tribal division occurs unremittingly in so-called multicultural societies is hardly required these days, because the evidence speaks for itself.

    However, in line with modern Britain, nobody (who finds themselves in a position of considerable influence) dare speak the truth.

    Britain simply doesn't do honesty. Our enthusiasm for intellectual honesty has been replaced with an enthusiasm for disingenuous, politically correct, niceties - and consequently the real crux issues are being ignored.

    Speaking of those who counseled compassion to the "culprits" he said: "They want them to be treated with oil, soap and caresses. But they should be beaten with fists. In a duel, you don't count or measure the blows, you strike as you can

    Pope Pious X
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #6 - July 22, 2015, 03:10 PM

    Quote
    when aforementioned immigrants evolved over a thousand year period very differently from ourselves, and thus plead allegiance and loyalty to a disparate arabic ideology, fused in the most complex of manners with their own punjabi/pakistani cultural heritage


    Yes. The immigrant sub-species has acquired traits so uniquely molded to their primitive, brown environment that they are – by their very nature – fundamentally incompatible with our superior values of justice and equality.  Roll Eyes
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #7 - July 22, 2015, 03:28 PM

    Yes. The immigrant sub-species ............


    Fucking Monkeys ... They don't stay at one place........



    I wonder who migrated where? and when??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #8 - July 22, 2015, 04:13 PM

    A thousand plus years, conditioned under a disparate belief system, along with significant cultural/racial differences, is not going to have any effect when relocated to a wildly differing environment and culture for the sole purpose of economic growth?

    I don't think I can ever feel quite as perplexed as when confronted with the apologist mantra of 'all cultures and people are the same bro', usually espoused by the very same people who wish to obtain special recognition and protection for the differences between muslims and non whites alike. I love consistency.

    Speaking of those who counseled compassion to the "culprits" he said: "They want them to be treated with oil, soap and caresses. But they should be beaten with fists. In a duel, you don't count or measure the blows, you strike as you can

    Pope Pious X
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #9 - July 22, 2015, 04:17 PM

    Yeah. You’re right, man. We white people are just so special, aren’t we? Can’t you tell?
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #10 - July 22, 2015, 04:46 PM

    Who said anything about being special?! Utilizing words not used by your opponent in any of their retorts is a clear sign of intellectual prowess. Honest.

    I merely made the observational distinction between cultures and ethnicities, by acknowledging differences in their own development and histories, in comparison to our own. And forgive me for jumping the gun, but I assume I'm probably deemed to be an EDL racist for having the audacity to arrive at such un-PC conclusions. Oh well.

    Are you honestly trying to claim there are absolutely no differences between Pakistani Muslims and native caucasian British people??!

    All the tension, riots, violence, arguments, racial differences, cultural, religious differences, (not to mention differences delibeately exploited and acknowledged by the left for the sake of attracting 'minority' demographic), were all a silly figment of somebody's imagination?

    Speaking of those who counseled compassion to the "culprits" he said: "They want them to be treated with oil, soap and caresses. But they should be beaten with fists. In a duel, you don't count or measure the blows, you strike as you can

    Pope Pious X
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #11 - July 22, 2015, 04:55 PM

    Do you think that those difference are innate and a result of their “evolution,” as you so scientifically put it?
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #12 - July 22, 2015, 06:42 PM

    A thousand plus years, conditioned under a disparate belief system, along with significant cultural/racial differences, is not going to have any effect when relocated to a wildly differing environment and culture for the sole purpose of economic growth?

    I don't think I can ever feel quite as perplexed as when confronted with the apologist mantra of 'all cultures and people are the same bro', usually espoused by the very same people who wish to obtain special recognition and protection for the differences between muslims and non whites alike. I love consistency.


    Do you think if a white european is adopted by a Muslim from Pakistan and raised there he will be different form the other Pakistani?

    If you are not a cultural relativist just say this, don't generalize about race, nationality, sexual orientation and other things which you are born with. There are many here that think pakistani/indian culture is inferior to the western one and not because of racial differences.
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #13 - July 22, 2015, 06:47 PM

    I don't live in the UK, so I can't say much about the political positions of David Cameron, but I think this speech was very good. It addressed the issues at their core. Apparently Majid Nawaz helped Cameron with the speech, and you can see his fingerprints on certain parts of it. Kudos to Majid Nawaz for his efforts on this.



    Good speech from Majid  Roll Eyes
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #14 - July 22, 2015, 07:38 PM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUTt331NddU

    Abdur Raheem Green's response
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #15 - July 23, 2015, 01:55 PM

    Oooo, my comments have reappeared. I wonder why. And I wonder why they were 'moved' in the first place, the same way dissenters were 'moved' from public viewing during the halcyon days of Soviet indoctrination.

    Speaking of those who counseled compassion to the "culprits" he said: "They want them to be treated with oil, soap and caresses. But they should be beaten with fists. In a duel, you don't count or measure the blows, you strike as you can

    Pope Pious X
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #16 - July 23, 2015, 01:58 PM

  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #17 - July 23, 2015, 02:04 PM

    Oooo, my comments have reappeared. I wonder ...... I wonder..............

    Hmmm.,  I wonder..I wonder...

    That is because you are a Prophet and a Wonder Man......wonder Adult......  I was wrong to call you as 15 year old..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #18 - August 06, 2015, 04:09 AM

    It doesn't make sense why some call David Cameron ''brave'' for his speech or David Cameron saying just a few weeks ago that they should not use 'Islamic State' on BBC meant that he was a ''coward''. It is as if goals are being set up just to declare victory.

    Denying the islamic state has anything to do with islam is cowardly. Saying there are problems is not. Not sure I'd say brave but I see where people are coming from.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #19 - August 06, 2015, 08:55 AM

    Do you support stoning?
    Um, eh, yes, I mean no, I mean under certain conditions yada yada  Roll Eyes

    https://twitter.com/MaajidNawaz/status/629056620794920960
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #20 - August 06, 2015, 09:13 AM

    But how can anybody, let alone an all seeing and knowing head of state complain about a section of immigration disconnected from modern Britain, when aforementioned immigrants evolved over a thousand year period very differently from ourselves, and thus plead allegiance and loyalty to a disparate arabic ideology, fused in the most complex of manners with their own punjabi/pakistani cultural heritage, far removed from our own way of life and any notion of ridiculous ultra liberal, post modern western idealism? It just seems like a never ending carrousel. Because nothing is being achieved and I'm starting to feel nauseous. An honest insight into why tribal division occurs unremittingly in so-called multicultural societies is hardly required these days, because the evidence speaks for itself.

    However, in line with modern Britain, nobody (who finds themselves in a position of considerable influence) dare speak the truth.

    Britain simply doesn't do honesty. Our enthusiasm for intellectual honesty has been replaced with an enthusiasm for disingenuous, politically correct, niceties - and consequently the real crux issues are being ignored.


    An issue I see is European cultures have been in a phase of cultural revolution for centuries while other cultures have not. Many modern cultures are based on revisionist history and a few cherry picked examples. History is constantly researched and reinterpreted to fit current views. A cultural identity which has solid grounding which is slow to change is the direct opposite of current trends thus a threat.
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #21 - August 06, 2015, 10:42 PM

    In other areas of policy we have Free Schools, which are going to perpetuate the very things he's talking about in that speech.

    https://newhumanist.org.uk/articles/4876/a-lesson-in-failure

    Ted Cantle, the author of a government investigation into the Oldham race riots, identified faith schools as a major cause of the riots. Schools today are far more segregated than in 2001. “I’m in favour of faith myself, but faith schools effectively segregate children,” says Romain. “It isn’t healthy for the society they produce, which will be divided. Precisely because we’re a multi-faith society, with many different faiths and none, it’s very important to work hard to ensure that we build bridges.”

    How can he be serious about the former (the speech) whilst promoting the latter (the schools policy)?
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #22 - August 06, 2015, 11:08 PM

    He is playing the religious conservative card so that he does not alienate this group as potential supporters. Standard politics based on hoping voters do not put 2 and 2 together as you have done.
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #23 - August 14, 2015, 06:19 PM

    I agree about faith schools being  a bad idea, it is the main reason that the tribal divisions are so bad in northern Ireland because one tribe (the Catholics) insist on their own schools. The two tribes don't have any social contact (it's even worse with Islam, as there are surahs and hadiths which state that you cannot be real friends with kufr).

    I am glad that the question of non violent extremism was raised, however. Terrorism is a red herring - there have been very few terrorist incidents in this country, nothing comparable to what the IRA did. The real problem is that there is a large and expanding community in this country which does not want to accept the core values that the rest of us live by, wants to have little to do with the rest of society except to assert their "rights", and where a disturbing proportion seem to look down on the "dirty kufr". 

    Presumably many Muslims regard Nawaz as a government stool pigeon. Isn't he Shia? (that would reduce his credibility even further)
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #24 - August 14, 2015, 07:49 PM

    I'm pretty sure Maajid is Sunni,

    Also I have seen more and more people with "Muslim" names debating on his Facebook page. And he actually addresses them.

    I think there is progress right there.

    RE: Irish terrorism it seems like both the British and the Irish agree on that "the troubles" in general was a pretty bad idea those days.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #25 - August 14, 2015, 09:39 PM

    I am glad that the question of non violent extremism was raised, however. Terrorism is a red herring - there have been very few terrorist incidents in this country, nothing comparable to what the IRA did. The real problem is that there is a large and expanding community in this country which does not want to accept the core values that the rest of us live by, wants to have little to do with the rest of society except to assert their "rights", and where a disturbing proportion seem to look down on the "dirty kufr".


    Well said. Taliban/ISIS are just the tip of the iceberg, the true problem is the mindset which nurtures those groups. Until muslims acknowledge that mindset is problematic, and honestly deals with it, groups such as ISIS, Boko Haram, Taliban will keep on rising.

    The mindset which thinks its ok to stone people for adultery, kill people for apostasy, keep female sex slaves (under certain conditions) etc. is prevalent among many muslims, regardless of their cultural and national background. But when groups who are crazy enough to actually act upon this mindset start popping up, muslims start claiming it has "nothing to do with Islam".  Roll Eyes

    Also, I find it strange that muslims believe ISIS, Boko Haram etc. are the only ones committing atrocities, when we almost daily read about atrocities being committed against non-mulims, by muslim mobs, in muslim nations. Perhaps, its a rather convenient way for them to not acknowledge reality? They want to start and end the discussion on ISIS and the likes, instead of acknowledging that those groups are just the tip of the ice berg.

    Rather than acknowledging that the resentment against non-muslims is a reality in most muslim nations, precisely because non-believers are deemed as unworthy kafirs, they will be in denial. People don't gather around and start burning fellow human beings in a momentary fit of rage, like some muslims have a tendency to do in muslim nations, there is something deeper that lay behind those actions.

    The vast majority of muslims thinks its perfectly fine to penalize apostasy with death. Religious belief is put first, human beings are put second. And they really believe such a mindset is unproblematic for their societies. People in  muslim societies in general, are not judged upon their actions and deeds as human beings. They are rather judged upon their religious background.

    Religionsim, ie religious zealtory, is all too common among muslims, and its raging havoc in muslim nations, why would any sane being in the west want that shit in the west (again)?
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #26 - August 14, 2015, 09:41 PM

    Also I have seen more and more people with "Muslim" names debating on his Facebook page. And he actually addresses them.

    I think there is progress right there.


    Well, shit can only be ignored to a certain extent, when the smell of it becomes too odorous, you just have to admit that shit exists. Religion has practically ruined the societies of muslim nations.
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #27 - August 15, 2015, 12:36 AM

    Right so David Cameron the man who has sold weapons to Saudi Arabias Islamic radicals that have been used to kill thousands of innocents civilians in yemen wants to preach about opposing islamic radicals

     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

    Not a single muslim in the UK has been as responsible as David Cameron has for many innocent civilians dying as a result of islamic radicals.
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #28 - August 15, 2015, 08:32 AM

    That is true because of UK involvement in Libya.

    But I hope you do not held UK government accountable for Saudis killing thousands of Yemenis. If West doesn't sell weapons to SA, Russians and Chinese will be very glad to help. Nothing can't stop SA buying weapons if this is what they want.
  • David Cameron's recent speech on extremism
     Reply #29 - August 15, 2015, 11:42 AM

    KSA is already in negotiations with Russia regarding an arms deal. Besides the issue behind arms deals is that weapon manufacturing has become a global trade but manufacturing has become restrict to 3 spheres. Russia block, China block and a NATO block. Each block competes for the unaffiliated customer. These blocks of manufacturing are political in nature those agenda driven.
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