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 Topic: Anxiety help

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  • Anxiety help
     OP - January 10, 2016, 04:50 PM
    Hi!

    First post.

    I should be clear that I'm not a Muslim or an ex-Muslim. I'm an British atheist and I'm just posting for some advice...I thought this might be the best place to get some honest opinion.

    Since Paris last year I've been reading more and more stuff on Islam and muslims. I've lived in the UK my whole life and have friends whose parents were Muslim (they're aren't) and work colleagues who are very liberal Muslims. In short, I've never really thought much about Islam.

    Anyway, with all this reading I've had rather a severe attack of anxiety and depression. It seems I've been wrong all these years. Muslims are becoming less not more secular. The term 'moderate' Muslim is a misnomer it seems since most Muslims are homophobic and rabidly anti-Semite. The cliched line that 'Muslims don't want to integrate' is in fact true.

    So I guess I'm looking for some clarity. I assume some of you guys live in the UK too. Is the UK and Europe, as it's starting to seem to me, basically screwed? What do you predict for the future? What kind of England will we be living in in 10 or 20 years time?

    Thanks for reading.
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #1 - January 10, 2016, 05:00 PM
    Maybe stop exposing yourself to anti-Muslim bigotry. That might help with your anxiety.
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #2 - January 10, 2016, 05:00 PM
    "It seems I've been wrong all these years. Muslims are becoming less not more secular. The term 'moderate' Muslim is a misnomer it seems since most Muslims are homophobic and rabidly anti-Semite."

    Sources please.

    You can always join those of us who live in the states. We've got shiny guns that might help you feel safe. After all, an armed populace is a safe populace  Roll Eyes
    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #3 - January 10, 2016, 05:41 PM
    I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend anyone. I do suffer from anxiety and I tend to catastrophize.

    I'm really looking for help here. It might seem irrational to you (I hope it does!) but I'm trying to get some perspective.

    If I'm wrong, then please let me know.

    Here's a source since you asked:
    theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/16/moderate-muslim-devout-liberal-religion
    "One young student in Leicester told me that unlike many of his fellow Muslims he would shake a woman’s hand. He still believed in gender segregation at public events but his stance on handshaking meant he defined himself as a moderate."

    anti-semitism
    huffingtonpost.com/abraham-h-foxman/rising-anti-semitism-in-e_b_7835610.html

    I mostly read left wing sites. I'm a life-long left-winger. That's why I'm having such a heard time with this.
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #4 - January 10, 2016, 06:05 PM
    Welcome!!!

    Waiting for @Lua  grin12
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #5 - January 10, 2016, 06:10 PM
    thanks  Smiley

    I know I might seem a bit odd to you guys, but I can't post this on the anxiety forum I use...

    I'm hoping that I'll get a clearer picture from you guys.
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #6 - January 10, 2016, 06:46 PM
    I read your first article. It seemed to be mainly about how using the term "moderate" may be counterproductive.

    Yes, 'many Muslims who identify as moderate may not actually hold to liberal values. But pretty much all the Muslims I've met over here in the states seem not very different in terms of the values they hold from the non-Muslims I meet.

    I think maybe the difference is if you interviewed Muslims who lived in strictly Islamic communities (as I think the writer of this article did). That's where these illiberal values tend to take hold, when a community is isolated from the western community at large. For those Muslims who live amongst the rest of society smoothly, I think there is must less reason to worry.

    Far right rhetoric against Muslim communities serve to further isolate these communities from society at large. This leads to further disparity between western and "Islamic" values. I feel it's important to affirm the importance of western values such as freedom of expression, gender equality, and secularism, and compatible religious doctrines are sure to follow.
    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #7 - January 10, 2016, 07:09 PM
    I've heard that the situation is better in the US than in Europe.

    There is also a smaller population.
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #8 - January 10, 2016, 10:14 PM
    I think you need to get out and meet more Muslims.
    Plenty of Muslims have tried to shake my hand.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #9 - January 11, 2016, 07:26 AM
    Handshaking isn't a huge concern for me.

    looking at accounts on twitter etc it's more the homophobia and anti-semitism.
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #10 - January 11, 2016, 09:22 AM
    Stop exposing yourself to crap. What you're getting is confirmation bias. You seek what confirms your views and ignore everything else.

    Also, stop hiding your bigoted views behind mental illness. You have bigoted views regardless of your anxiety. Your anxiety might be perpetrating them, but you're the one holding them. Anxiety does not produce any specific view. Having a mental illness does not in any way whatsoever justify having any kind of prejudiced and discriminatory view. It's your responsibility to not reflect your illness onto others.

    I'm not sure what kind of help you're looking for here. If you're looking for a place to confirm your views, you're in the completely wrong place. But I'm offering you help by advising you to stop exposing yourself to what you're seeking to confirm your own views. You lived your whole life around liberal Muslims and suddenly those Muslims don't count.
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #11 - January 11, 2016, 10:27 AM
    Hi Absurdist,

    I'm really sorry you're so offended. I honestly did come here to offend anyone. I just wanted to hear from you guys that all this talk is wrong and that nothing bad is going to happen. That was my hope anyway. I was reassurance seeking.
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/dont-try-harder-try-different/201203/three-things-maintain-anxiety

    I agree I'm getting confirmation bias, -that's what anxiety sufferers do. It's part of the problem, -they catastrophize.
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/science-and-sensibility/201211/anxiety-and-exaggerations

    I'm also sorry you're so unsympathetic to the trouble I'm having. But I understand the kind of anti-Muslim stuff you're bound to get on a site like this. If others are equally offended then I'll delete my account and move on with apologies.

    Yes you're right I live around some liberal Muslims, but are they the majority? According to Maajid Nawaj most Muslims are conservative. Stories like the Birmingham Trojan horse affair worry me. Particularly worrying is the fact that apparently most of the community believe there was no problem.

    Anyway, again. I'm sorry if I offended, I really am.
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #12 - January 11, 2016, 10:32 AM
    Welcome  parrot

    Shaking hands isn't the problem, it's an issue of tolerance and how much they support liberalism.

    If you want to see how bad it is, why don't you go to areas with huge muslim population, go near a mosque and ask muslims there what they think?

    Your country isn't screwed (I don't think) but if people think things will always be the same after mass immigrations + high birth rate without integration, that's just delusion.

    Honestly, we're not looking at 20 years time line here, I don't think muslim population will outgrow the natives in 20 years, that's too fast. It's an issue if liberalism will die in 200 years or not... Personally I think caliphate goals is nonsense and impossible to achieve because strict Sharia isn't compatible with modern world, but I'm no prophet so who knows.

    Either way, since you live in UK, why don't you confirm this yourself? Ask muslims what they think about homosexuals, equal rights + treatments for women, gender segregation, etc. Make note about how many muslims are highly conservative vs liberal ones. The scary part is liberal/non practicing muslims can "relapse" like born-again Christians.
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #13 - January 11, 2016, 11:02 AM
    Hey Helaine,

    Thank you SOOO much for replying. I really appreciate it.

    I also don't think the Muslim population will outgrow the UK population in 20 years. I don't think it will happen in my lifetime. But anxiety isn't rational. It's difficult to ever say what I'm scared of- change perhaps? the UK becoming more illiberal? People like Maryam Namazie being murdered like the Charlie Hebdo people were? A slow creep towards something different.

    I don't think I could go to an area with a huge Muslim population and just ask people on the street! That's not very British. I've been looking through British Muslim's twitter accounts and more often than not I see young people espousing very conservative views. I also see a lot of what I would call conspiracy thinking (The Jews caused 9/11 etc) It's not everyone...but it's frequent. This has alarmed me.

    I also read a poll in the Guardian (hardly bigoted crap) which said 30% of UK Muslims support Sharia Law while 0% think homosexuality is OK.
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality

    Thanks again for your reply.
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #14 - January 11, 2016, 12:07 PM
    What is your anxiety in relation with? Intolerant attitudes coming from Muslims or that they will "take over and establish Sharia"?

    If it's the latter then guess what? A takeover by 5% of the population is not going to happen. Claims of mass Muslim immigration are factually incorrect, as immigrating to the UK has become increasingly difficult for those who are not from EU member states and is now impossible for most people.

    I agree with Absurdist; take responsibility for your own prejudice. Most of my immediate family are tolerant and are not homophobes so to say that no Muslims support homosexuality is also inaccurate. That being said I will admit that there are issues with homophobia in the British Muslim community. Most are like American Christian bigots who will tolerate homosexuality but say that they "don't agree with it". Thus they are harmless, like most bigots. What are you afraid they are going to do? My approach is to either try to educate them or to ignore them and move on.

    You do realise that Muslims over here hold very little political power and that even those involved in politics tend to be very liberal (the majority of Muslim MPs voted in favour of gay marriage). So what is there that you fear from an almost powerless religious minority?
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #15 - January 11, 2016, 12:14 PM
    Besides, those uneducated and bigoted Muslims who want to establish an all-encompassing Islamic State can't even get their shit together in Muslim-majority countries, yet they are going to plan some brilliant takeover here?  Cheesy
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #16 - January 11, 2016, 12:26 PM
    Quote
    I also see a lot of what I would call conspiracy thinking (The Jews caused 9/11 etc)


    I would wager most muslims believe this. Indonesian muslims never think that muslims caused 9/11. Since the incident they've been blaming anyone and everyone else for it. Honestly I don't think I've come across muslims who think that 9/11 was caused by muslims. Except for non practicing muslims..

    Holocaust denial, etc this is all very common in muslim world.

    Quote
    A slow creep towards something different.


    To be honest, even if it's going to change into something different, The world will NEVER go back into the caliphate age that muslims dream of. It will never happen, period. It just doesn't work like that now.

    To cure your anxiety, go here:

     https://www.facebook.com/groups/872095636170933/?multi_permalinks=912789245434905&notif_t=group_highlights

    "This group is for Reform-minded Muslims, Friends & Supporters to discuss ways to reform Islam."

    There are many muslims (growing minority of educated people) who choose to reform Islam. They are working from within. So don't worry TOO MUCH about that, since there are many, many people now who openly discuss, challenge, and try to reform Islam. Some of them creating Quranist sect, progressive sect, etc. Even MUSLIMS are uncomfortable with traditional Islam. You are not alone in this.
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #17 - January 11, 2016, 12:27 PM
    Quote from: urusainaa on January 10, 2016, 04:50 PM
    . Muslims are becoming less not more secular.

    An arbitrary cut-off point, I know, but the hijab was less seen on the streets of London before 9/11. Now it is an un-challengeable part of the landscape.

    Move along. Nothing to see here.

  • Anxiety help
     Reply #18 - January 11, 2016, 01:17 PM
    Thanks for all your comments and again, sorry if I offended anyone.

    Especially thanks for your lighthearted comments..they really helped  thnkyu

    Quote
    Besides, those uneducated and bigoted Muslims who want to establish an all-encompassing Islamic State can't even get their shit together in Muslim-majority countries, yet they are going to plan some brilliant takeover here?

      Cheesy

    I'm sorry if I come across bigoted. To be honest, I'm just sick. Before this is was skin cancer, and before that it was climate change.

    Any way, thanks again...

    Quote
    An arbitrary cut-off point, I know, but the hijab was less seen on the streets of London before 9/11. Now it is an un-challengeable part of the landscape.

    Move along. Nothing to see here.

    Not sure what your point is sorry.
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #19 - January 11, 2016, 04:10 PM
    To put things in perspective, I struggle with anxiety. I don't have sympathy for your issues because you're using your illness as an excuse to justify your views. You're essentially appropriating mental illness to enable yourself to talk about your fucked up views without being held responsible for them.

    If you want reassurance, seek reassurance yourself. But reassurance is useless for anxiety because it's a vicious cycle. You might find data showing that most Muslims are peaceful and progressive and you could question its veracity and seek reassurance that the data is correct.
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #20 - January 11, 2016, 04:15 PM
    If you keep having swings into intense anxiety over different things, you might want to go see a psychologist or psychiatrist. I've dealt with a general anxiety disorder for the past couple years and ever since I started taking meds and put myself on a good exercise plan, things have been going much better.

    It's also good that you can open up about what you're having anxiety about because being isolated with your own anxiety-distorted ideas is unhealthy. I think you're in a perfectly good place to discuss these things and I wouldn't call you a bigot. Just be aware that it's unwise to make generalizations (and especially demonize) about massive groups of people (eg Muslims).

    We are a public forum and we try to make this place accepting for Muslims, ex-muslims, and other contributors. This isn't the place to be if you're just going to bash Muslims.
    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #21 - January 12, 2016, 02:00 AM
    You're not a bigot.

    But you also suffer from anxiety so tackle that first. 
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #22 - January 14, 2016, 01:17 AM
    Quote from: urusainaa on January 11, 2016, 07:26 AM
    Handshaking isn't a huge concern for me.

    looking at accounts on twitter etc it's more the homophobia and anti-semitism.


    What I mean is, there are plenty of normal Muslims out there. Outrageous social media stands out. No one retweets the humdrum of everyday Muslim life, just the outrageous stuff.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #23 - January 14, 2016, 02:05 PM

    maybe you need to see a holistic practioner for your anxiety. I know multi b complex is very good for the mood and gingo biloba gets your brain circulation going.

    as far as handshaking goes. honestly does it matter? I shake peoples hands all the time. It makes a connection. I've heard certain orthodox jews don't shake womens hands.

     in a way its a bit unhygienic. the Japanese method of bowing is the best I think. or just air kissing is another good one.

    apart from that I agree with absurdist and three. go out and connect with muslims rather than relying on msn and twitter. and get off the net!
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #24 - January 17, 2016, 08:29 PM
    Urusaina, I am from the south UK and I share your concerns. There are many areas which are Islamist Ghettos and you cant get by without having religion shoved in your face somehow and are increasing, Nightmare for non Islamic people and who want to live their life free from this stuff. All the mosques/groups have their Islamist agendas, pushing and advocating adherence to the Quran and Mohammed as best example for mankind, in all matters of life, day and night as much as they are able, imposing as much as they can get away with, Indoctrinating hundreds and thousands of children and generations with these foundations. Which of course means that non believers are the worst creatures and destined for eternal horrific torture, natural instinctive hatred for jews, intolerance and silencing of opposing views, values that are opposute to freedoms of individual, belief, opinions etc etc etc. Yeah future does not look promising I am afraid, This vile Ideology has to be stopped in its tracks.
  • Anxiety help
     Reply #25 - January 17, 2016, 08:40 PM
    Thanks for all the replies.

    Hey r1233, where are you from?
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