Homosexuality

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Homosexuality
OP - June 14, 2016, 04:57 AM

This could be the law against homosexuality.. and it is private offence (four eyes witnesses).

Lesbian

Quote
And the two women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death takes them, or God makes for them a way out. [Quran 4:15]

Gay

Quote
And the two men who commit it from amongst you, then you shall annoy them. If they repent and amend, then leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Merciful. [Quran 4:16]

for me, the need of four eyes witnesses means that the open demonstration of "adultery" is forbidden. It is a private offence and they neither harm others. So better mind our own business. peace.

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- Cornflower
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Homosexuality
Reply #1 - June 14, 2016, 06:41 AM

It is very irritating when certain apologists or others try the "it's a sin if it's in public"-argument. Do people have any idea how burdensome and difficult it is, both practically and mentally, to keep such a secret? As if the "keep it private" makes everything OK and good. This is why people want to get out of the closet. It's not very nice in there. Dark, lonely, and full of anxiety.

"The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
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Homosexuality
Reply #2 - June 14, 2016, 06:50 AM

The difference is that there's no sexuality on display in Arab/Muslim societies, so there's no need to be coming out of the closet. In fact the very idea of identity politics hardly exists. I never felt the need to identify as queer till years after I moved to Canada, because the identity was imposed on me and I eventually had to accept it.

In my first years in Canada, I used to fool around with guys and people would be like, "You have to at least be bi." And I'd be like, "I dunno."

I used to fool around with guys back in Kuwait, but it was never a thing that defined my identity. It was just something I did.

A lot of LGBTQ activists in Arab/Muslim societies are opposed to identity politics, because they view them as a form of cultural colonialism. Queer and trans folk in Arab and Muslim societies wanna do our movements our own way. We don't wanna recreate Western movements.
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Reply #3 - June 14, 2016, 07:19 AM

I can't speak about how it is in societies different than the one I'm familiar with, and I can only speak for myself. When I said being open, I didn't say anything about identity politics, you just assumed that. Coming out of the closet can simply mean you don't have to hide who you love or sleep with, because of homophobia. It's about not having to be afraid to slip up, or having the need to constantly hide or watch what you say because people will judge you. So when someone says "keep it private", it really means "keep it secret so that no one finds out". Which in turn means that the secret you're hiding is "dirty", and all it entails.

Which can work, to a certain point, for some I guess and in some contexts I assume. I have never lived in Kuwait.. But for me it's constricting both the identity politics as well as this bs "keep it private" mentality.

"The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
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Homosexuality
Reply #4 - June 14, 2016, 10:27 AM

Well, this "keep it private" mentality is certainly constricting, but in Arab and Muslim societies, it's true for everyone, not just gay people. Which is why gender/sexuality rights activists tend to advocate for sexual liberation as a whole and not just LGBTQ liberation.

Coming out is a thing in Western culture because LGBTQ people are bombarded with heterosexuality and heteronormativity in public. Coming out is a reaction to that, a message that they have as much of a right to bombard the public with their sexuality as straight people. This is why gay pride parades are a thing, and why they're so over-the-top and campy. It's an ironic way of bombarding the public with queer sexualities.
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Reply #5 - June 14, 2016, 10:33 AM

You are intentionally trying to get into a discussion about something that was not my point in my first post. But it doesn't matter, it's not the first time. I do however, as always appreciate, your input.

"The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
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Homosexuality
Reply #6 - June 14, 2016, 10:36 AM

I'm not even trying to get into a discussion. I just wanted to input an Arab/Muslim society perspective, since we're talking about homosexuality in Islam.
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