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Theme Changer

 Topic: Land of the Free

 (Read 9017 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Land of the Free
     OP - November 11, 2008, 08:16 PM

    I didn't know where else to post this. I guess this is the best place.

    I'm back in the land of the free for a few days now.  I'm back in the West. I left the Muslim Arab country I was in.  I took off hijaab on the way home from the airport. After more than 14 hours on a plane, there was no way to do it gracefully in the airport without looking like a squirrel died on my head.   cool2  I haven't worn one since - except as a scarf 'round my neck when it's been chilly outside. 

    One thing I noticed is that people are much nicer to me than they were before. People were civil to me before, but never friendly.  Maybe they were racist, but more likely they were scared and afraid to say the wrong thing. Afraid to offend, and who is more ready to be offended than Muslims.  Of course, I did have encounters with racists too.  But now it's just different.

    I've also eaten some pork and had a margarita.   grin12  piggy cheers

    Other than that, I'm just getting ready to start my life over again. I don't know what will happen or where we will go from here.  My husband was very hurt and angry, but he has come to a cautious acceptance of his murtad wife.  We'll see how that goes.   bunny

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #1 - November 11, 2008, 08:57 PM

    Good one. Best of luck with the husband, and I'm not being sarcastic. If he can accept it then that's all good.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #2 - November 11, 2008, 09:01 PM

    I didn't know where else to post this. I guess this is the best place.

    I'm back in the land of the free for a few days now.  I'm back in the West. I left the Muslim Arab country I was in.  I took off hijaab on the way home from the airport. After more than 14 hours on a plane, there was no way to do it gracefully in the airport without looking like a squirrel died on my head.   cool2  I haven't worn one since - except as a scarf 'round my neck when it's been chilly outside. 

    One thing I noticed is that people are much nicer to me than they were before. People were civil to me before, but never friendly.  Maybe they were racist, but more likely they were scared and afraid to say the wrong thing. Afraid to offend, and who is more ready to be offended than Muslims.  Of course, I did have encounters with racists too.  But now it's just different.

    I've also eaten some pork and had a margarita.   grin12  piggy cheers

    Other than that, I'm just getting ready to start my life over again. I don't know what will happen or where we will go from here.  My husband was very hurt and angry, but he has come to a cautious acceptance of his murtad wife.  We'll see how that goes.   bunny

    Must be a disorientating experience for you. I think that for a muslim (I'm not one so I  can only compare  by relying on what I do know) the hijaab probably means 'I am a pious Muslim lady' and implies some form of  statement and status and expectation of a certain treatment  that I hope you'll tell me more about.
    To a person from the western mindset, Hijaab, first and foremost, sets up a confrontation which means 'keep away from me' and so it sets up contradictory emotions. It says 'I'm dealing with a person here who needs some service, some civility, but who is telling me to keep away from them. Dilemma - How do I relate/deal with them?'  The only females we're likely to meet who are of Western cultural understanding and who wear hijaab are christian nuns. But there are not too many of those about anymore.
    So if people were 'civil' with you in hijaab it was probably a cross between friendliness and puzzlement and not frosty hostility that you were experiencing. What's your take on that?

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #3 - November 11, 2008, 09:15 PM

    I didn't know where else to post this. I guess this is the best place.

    I'm back in the land of the free for a few days now.  I'm back in the West. I left the Muslim Arab country I was in.  I took off hijaab on the way home from the airport. After more than 14 hours on a plane, there was no way to do it gracefully in the airport without looking like a squirrel died on my head.

    Ah yes, I remember that. Although I anticipated the dead squirrel look and wore my hijab extra loose when I left Kuwait, so I could remove it in Amsterdam and not look even worse without it Wink

    And I agree with Os, good luck with your husband. How long did it take before you told him? That takes guts! And sorry if this sounds rude, but do you really want to stay married to a Muslim? I just can't wrap my head around it. It's one thing if the marriage started out with you as a non-Muslim, but this is an entirely different dynamic...  wacko

    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #4 - November 11, 2008, 09:56 PM

    Two things intrigue me to the point of offering you my last smartie if you give me the answers:
    What is the dead squirrel look.
    Would you have chosen your husband if your marriage hadn't been arranged for you, assuming it was.
    Don't answer 2 if it's too personal to deal with.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #5 - November 11, 2008, 10:18 PM

    The "dead squirrel look" is a reference to the bad hair day that results when you remove the hijab.
    As for the other, from memory she chose her husband of her own free will.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #6 - November 11, 2008, 10:22 PM

    The "dead squirrel look" is a reference to the bad hair day that results when you remove the hijab.
    As for the other, from memory she chose her husband of her own free will.

    Sorry, I absentmindedly ate the smartie whilst waiting for an answer.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #7 - November 12, 2008, 12:27 AM

    I've started going out without one as well, but because it's winter I wear a hat and it doesn't look obvious. I'd still wear it around old Muslim friends, family and community because I haven't grown the balls to withstand their judgement.

    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #8 - November 12, 2008, 07:35 AM

    I've started going out without one as well, but because it's winter I wear a hat and it doesn't look obvious. I'd still wear it around old Muslim friends, family and community because I haven't grown the balls to withstand their judgement.


    That's funny, I also wore alot of hats when I first took off the hijab, now I barely do.  Afro

    Don't worry, one day you wil be in a fighting mood and ready to face the ones around you who still don't know yet.  Smiley

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #9 - November 12, 2008, 08:10 AM

    I've started going out without one as well, but because it's winter I wear a hat and it doesn't look obvious. I'd still wear it around old Muslim friends, family and community because I haven't grown the balls to withstand their judgement.

    Well if you grow balls that'll really freak them out. whistling2

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #10 - November 12, 2008, 07:41 PM

    Must be a disorientating experience for you. I think that for a muslim (I'm not one so I  can only compare  by relying on what I do know) the hijaab probably means 'I am a pious Muslim lady' and implies some form of  statement and status and expectation of a certain treatment  that I hope you'll tell me more about.

    To a person from the western mindset, Hijaab, first and foremost, sets up a confrontation which means 'keep away from me' and so it sets up contradictory emotions. It says 'I'm dealing with a person here who needs some service, some civility, but who is telling me to keep away from them. Dilemma - How do I relate/deal with them?'  The only females we're likely to meet who are of Western cultural understanding and who wear hijaab are christian nuns. But there are not too many of those about anymore.

    So if people were 'civil' with you in hijaab it was probably a cross between friendliness and puzzlement and not frosty hostility that you were experiencing. What's your take on that?


    I think the hijaab says a few things to people:

    1. I'm a foreigner, so I don't speak English, so don't bother talking to me.  So many times people have been shocked when they hear me speaking unaccented English.

    2.  I'm a foreigner here to add some spicy diversity to your country, so feel free to ask me all sorts of annoying questions while I'm trying to get on with the business of living, questions you wouldn't feel moved to ask other people in the store.  While this is just good hearted curiosity, it really does serve to highlight your 'otherness', often in public and in front of other people.  I didn't mind it from the elderly, but I did from people who just had crunchy granola written all over them, because I felt like I was being made into an exhibit for them.

    3.  I hate Jews.  Because of the prevalence of hatred for Jews among Arabs and other Muslims, it was often like there was a barrier that made people stay away from me, because they might think that I hate Jews or had some other repugnant views.  I also experienced some humiliating racist experiences because of this.  It's not easy to be a hijaabi when you live in a place with a huge Orthodox Jewish population.  I notised this a lot more after the Aqsa Intifadah started, which is also when incidents started happening. Before that, I didn't have too many problems.

    4.  I hate the West.  This wasn't just the racist haters, but I think some people generally think, 'That woman probably hates our country and our culture, so let me just keep her at a distance.'  I have other thoughts on this, maybe I'll write them someday.  But one thing is that I never really found as much anti West sentiment among my  hijaabi friends and family as much as I heard them from the men who were dressed like every other Westerner.  You couldn't tell them apart except from their name, they were able to blend in so easily.  But they might say things in 'private' that would set them completely apart from others politically, socially, culturally. 

    Besides that, I was generally ignored and free to live my life.  There were lots of Muslims in the places we lived, so people were used to hijaabis, and the benefit of that is that you don't experience some of the things hijaabis in other places might get.  But mostly, I think people did think I was a foreigner who wouldn't speak the language anyway, so they kept their distance. 

    I also know that I'm probably not holding myself off as much.  Before, I was so afraid to be hurt, spit on, hit, or whatever that I also held myself at a distance.  When you are in the mosque community, fear of non Muslims is drilled into you, especially women.  It's a part of the victim mentality that defines Muslim life today. 

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #11 - November 12, 2008, 07:50 PM


    Ah yes, I remember that. Although I anticipated the dead squirrel look and wore my hijab extra loose when I left Kuwait, so I could remove it in Amsterdam and not look even worse without it Wink


    I did do my hair on the plane before we landed, but I didn't anticipate going through customs, passport control, and all these other things without there being a single washroom for all those hours where I could duck in and fix it up.  By the time we got through passport control, I was hot and sweaty and aggravated, and I knew that dead squirrel was back up there.  But as soon as I was sitting out in the car, I took it off and haven't put a thing on my head since then.  I have to say it is a lot colder going outsideno than it used to be.  I will have to get a winter hat now! 

    Quote
    And I agree with Os, good luck with your husband. How long did it take before you told him? That takes guts! And sorry if this sounds rude, but do you really want to stay married to a Muslim? I just can't wrap my head around it. It's one thing if the marriage started out with you as a non-Muslim, but this is an entirely different dynamic...  wacko


    I told him last year when I began to have serious doubts about Quran, hadith, prophet, and so on.  I think that he thought I was in a 'phase'.  This time it came out when one of those super convert shaykhs from America was on TV and I rolled my eyes at the idiotic platitudes he was spouting about the perfection of the Quran.  At first he kept saying we were finished, but he didn't actually go to the court and make talaaq on me.  Now he says he doesn't want to.  I do feel sorry for him.  He married a woman who was a pious, learned Muslim.  Now he has someone else, and I'm sorry about that. But I told him I'm not going to pretend to be someone else, and especially to dress like that, in order to make him happy or anyone else happy. 

    Do I want to stay married to a Muslim? I would prefer it if he would wake up and leave Islaam himself, but I don't know if he will.  We have children, and they are my foremost concern.  He is a good person, and a good father.  I told  him I will respect his religion by not cooking pork, and so on in the house.  But if he thinks I won't push the children to observe and view with awe the world around them rather than the invisible magic man in the sky, he's wrong.  This is why I don't know what will happen in the future. Maybe he won't be able to stand it.  It does bother me because the religion does teach that apostates should be killed or, if you're a Hanafi and the apostate is a woman, then jailed for life.  So it bothers me because I want to know how he reconciles that with our life.  He just says that it takes some people 'a long time to figure it out'.  I should leave that one alone and take it for what it is, but for me - I'm not figuring anything out. I've arrived there. 

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #12 - November 12, 2008, 08:49 PM

    Thanks for the reply to my post above. There's lots of things I wouldn't have thought of. It's taught me lots, thanks.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #13 - November 12, 2008, 09:41 PM

    I saw that Rational1 did a list of things she would do when she was free from Kuwait and Islaam. http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/weaponstestingrange/index.php/topic,1560.0.html  I found it inspiring.  One of the great lies of Islaam is that Muslims live 'much like everyone else' only they don't drink or eat pork. What a lie.  It is all about the things you cannot do. Everything becomes haraam, or worse, makruh.  Makruh is worse because it's not out and out haraam, but if you do it, everyone will lecture you, harass you, you feel guilty, etc.  So you cut out many things. And if you're a sufi or on one of the groups that's big on tazkiyah, then there are other things you don't do that are normally permissible, but for you, on your spiritual journey, they take you away from god, so they're haraam or frowned upon. Like going on vacations that aren't to visit scholars and tombs.  Roll Eyes  

    So anyway, you end up with a life full of 'don't's and not many 'do!'s other than praying, fasting, and being a self righteous wanker.

    1. eat non-halal meat
    I used to do this anyway.  Sometimes I thought it was a sin, and sometimes I didn't.  I think that underneath it all, for the most part, I just didn't care.  But what I won't have to do is read the labels for every freaking thing in the supermarket.  

    2. eat pork
    Done. At some sausages at breakfast, bacon on a sandwich.  I look forward to eating gelatine again at some point in the future.

    3. drink alcohol
    I had two margaritas and a beer so far.  I would like to try a mojito. I don't really enjoy it so much, but it's the fact that I can.  I don't know if I will ever drink a beer again.   sloshed


    4. attend events where alcohol is served
    Doing this without feeling extremely uncomfortable or guilty when it's related to family or friends who weren't Muslim.  But now I can attend an event where the purpose is alcohol. Or hang out with a friend at a pub.

    5. celebrate holidays
    I did this vicariously through Christian relatives for Christmas, but this year I celebrated Halloween. I took my children out for candy as well.  You know what? My Muslim husband didn't mind one bit. I was the one who was a sanctimonious jerk.  Now I am excited for Christmas - you know, without the Christ part.  The carols and lights and stuff.

    6. celebrate anniversaries
    I always did this one.

    7. attend a funeral
    Done, but not comfortably.  

    8. go to a salon without needing a private room
    omg, I can't wait to go to a salon in the West.  I didn't get my haircut or styled for more than a decade because of this, except when I was in the Middle East.  Now I can!  

    9. dye my hair black
    I made this mistake once.  

    10. get acrylics
    I forgot about this!  I might do it just once.  Except I have children and it might  make my life harder.

    11. paint my fingernails and toenails
    I started painting my nails when it was Ramadan. People must have thought I was having the longest period ever.

    12. pluck my eyebrows
    13. get a brazilian wax
    14. get cosmetic surgery
    I'll leave that to others.

    15. wear makeup in public
    16. wear perfume in public
    !!!! I have been doing this! I got all new lips tints and such, foundation too. I'm looking at eyeshadows, but I was never that good at making up my eyes.  

    17. sing in public
    No one should be subjected to my singing.  Other than my family. For me the 'big thing' is to listen to music openly, and loudly.  I have sort of done this, but whenever I got to the masjid or the school or anywhere there were Muslims, I would turn it off or down. Plus, many of my friends were staunchly anti music, so I hid my horrible music habit from them.  whistling2

    18. date
    19. have sex
    20. have anal sex
    21. masturbate
    22. walk around my house naked
    23. marry a non-Muslim
    N/A  Although #21 is funny, bcause of  how awful Muslims think it is.  Yarg, I don't want to think about Muslims' sex issues right now.


    24. get a tattoo
    I am too much of a chicken for this.  But if I wasn't, I would totally do it.

    25. have statues/figurines
    26. have photos on the wall
    I can't wait to have art on my walls, and little figurines.  I love Day of the Dead artwork, and have some packed away somewhere.  I used to feel guilty even looking at art!

    27. have a dog
    28. pet or hold a dog
    N/A, I'm allergic

    29. travel alone
    Did this, even in the name of the deen.

    30. earn interest
    31. pay interest
    Oh yes, yes, give me interest, sweet sweet bank account.  And I will pay it on the house that I hope to eventually have. The one I will pay a mortgage for, since I am no longer restricted by this stupid religion into living in other people's homes and paying their mortgage for them under the banner of being so pious and holy.

    32. eat during the day in Ramadan
    I did this as an act of rebellion during this past Ramadan,  It was a little hard because I was in a Muslim country, and I didn't want to eat in front of colleagues in the office. But I would wait until after fajr to eat, and then I snuck in chips and gum and candies during the day.

    33. eat and drink with either hand
    I still eat with the right hand, but I no longer hold my left one under the table. [You know, to prevent you from accidentally eating with your left hand].  I even had some Muslims on my case because I cut my meat with the fork in the left and the knife in my stronger hand. They would say that I might 'forget' to switch the fork back and I might eat the meat with my left hand. How anal.   Roll Eyes  I do deliberately hold my glass or cup in the left hand now.

    34. sleep on my stomach
    I always did so, but now without guilt. What a stupid, superstitious religion.

    35. sleep through fajr
    Without feeling guilty,  whistling2

    36. wear normal clothes
    37. wear clothes that fit
    This has been wonderful, but also stranger than I anticipated. I didn't realize how big my clothes were.  All of my skirts and pants are far too big in the waist and around the legs.  Of course, my skirts are ankle length or longer, as are almost all my dresses.  I also usually buy tops 1 or 2 sizes larger.  If you're hijaabi, it's what you do, but when you're not it probably looks really dumb, and like you can't put yourself together.  This is going to take time. I can't go out and buy a whole new wardrobe.

    38. go to a rock concert or festival
    Hell yeah.

    39. dance in public
    Another thing I should not subject others to.

    40. flirt
    41. go shopping or go out with a non-mahram
    N/A, but I refuse to feel guilty any longer about having male friends, including good friends.  Even to the point I felt guilty or wrong calling them 'friend' instead of 'a good brother' or 'my teacher'.  The whole fear that something could happen at any time with any man - so ridiculous, and an insult to both genders.


    42. criticize the laws of Islam
    Doing this. But not openly.

    43. have male friends
    Above...

    44. have gay or lesbian friends
    45. have non-Muslim friends
    I have non Muslim friends. Some I drifted away from over the years, especially after I got married.  Islaam may play a part, but so does geography and changing lives, so it's hard to say.  

    46. make decisions for yourself
    I started doing what I liked, but not in everything. I am mortified by how much control I gave the shaykhs, or friends, or the mosque people or my husband or these stupid books called Quran and the hadith collections.  Now I have to take real control of my life without feeling guilty about it, which is what Muslims make people feel when they do this.

    47. go inside other houses of worship just to look around
    48. get your tarot read for a giggle
    49. draw Mohammed cartoons
    I thought about this, esp. #48.  We'll see.  I kind of don't want to have anything to do with any religion.  Every day that passes, they appear stupider to me than the day before.  And I have been inside churches, so my curiosity is definitely sated.  

    My additions:

    50. Shaking men's hands
    51. Not feeling like I'm doing something wrong when I watch a TV show or movie that has women dancing, or  people kissing. Although I'm not entirely comfortable with sex scenes and such, and I do still look away.  I am always going to be a shy person I think.  But even if it showed people at a club, I would feel guilty before.  
    52.  Saying 'four letter words'.  Fuckity fuck.
    53.  Not sitting through boring, stupid, offensive, idiotic khutbas and lectures and saying 'Mashallah!'  I used to feel more inspired watching the fundamentalist Christian preachers on TV.  Even though I don't believe in their religion, at least they aren't all boring.  The khatibs are almost universally boring!
    54.  Exercise without guilt, and break out of the sedentary lifestyle encouraged among Muslim women.
    55. Being able to display my country's flag, or other sort of patriotic memorabilia without feeling guilty or being told that this is haraam, nationalism, etc.  Plus, the whole 'well, if they're patriots that means they hate Muslims' fear trip.

    Basically, I guess the gist is living without guilt.

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #14 - November 12, 2008, 09:57 PM

    Hi fading,

    Wow! I must say I've really learnt about Muslim customs from your last post.

    The list in this post could very well act as a successful deterrent for anyone considering Islam.

  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #15 - November 13, 2008, 04:10 AM

    I wish we could hang out, you sound like a fun person. It's great that your husband is so agreeable.

    Yea, it felt kinda weird drinking with my left hand while holding a book with my right. Sleeping through fajr without guilt is nice. Shaytaan's invisible pee in the ear. Roll Eyes

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #16 - November 13, 2008, 12:21 PM

    Wow!  What a list, and I can relate to so many of the items on it as well.

    I recently moved out of the house I had been sharing with my Muslim, soon-to-be-ex. and I was like a kid in a candy store the first time I went grocery shopping for myself and I FINALLY bought some liquor at the supermarket!

    I can also now eat Swedish meatballs whenever I go to Ikea without my hubbie giving me dirty looks.

    And, I can enjoy my nightly spliff without having to look over my shoulder.

    I still have the water pot in the bathroom though. That is one habit I don't think I will ever break out of!  Must admit that one of the few good things that came out of my experience as a Muslim was that I now have a NICE, CEAN BUM! grin12

    Oh, and I am left handed, get over it!  It's genetics, dammit!

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #17 - November 13, 2008, 02:41 PM

    Thanks for sharing that with us Nour.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #18 - November 13, 2008, 03:04 PM

    You're welcome, sojournerlumus!  Kiss

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #19 - November 13, 2008, 03:16 PM

    I still have the water pot in the bathroom though... NICE, CLEAN BUM! grin12


    Smiley Me too.

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #20 - November 13, 2008, 09:31 PM

    Lol. Glad you liked my list, Fading Smiley I've managed to do almost all of those things by now, even if for no other reason than now I can! Afro

    You added some good ones, though I never cared about swear words or watching sex scenes in movies. But you did remind me about all the obligatory religious words, especially mashallah... I know some people who would never tell you any news or details about themselves without following it with ,"say mashallah!!" Supposedly to prevent the evil eye.. Roll Eyes so much superstition.

    You're right though, what the list comes down to is just living without guilt, a luxury definitely not available as a Muslim.

    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #21 - November 14, 2008, 12:54 AM

    Heh, I swear all the time and watch sex scenes, even when I was a Muslim. I find forbidden consumables the difficult thing to do, and am suprised how you guys go straight for alcohol while I'm still repulsed by the stuff. Here's my extensive list if you're interested.

    1. eat non-halal meat
    I tried a friend's chicken wing when we were eating out, but I'm still scared of my boyfriend's beef sandwiches. 

    2. eat pork
    Definitely not eager about that and don't have pork loving friends to tempt me.

    3. drink alcohol
    see above


    4. attend events where alcohol is served
    We all did this all the time.

    5. celebrate holidays
    Not interested

    6. celebrate anniversaries
    This was not a problem in my sect.

    7. attend a funeral
    Again, encouraged in my sect. 

    8. go to a salon without needing a private room
    Er, I don't like beauty treatment. 

    9. dye my hair black
    Not a problem in my sect. 

    10. get acrylics
    I don't get this one.

    11. paint my fingernails and toenails
    Not interested.

    12. pluck my eyebrows
    Not a problem in my sect.

    13. get a brazilian wax
    neither that

    14. get cosmetic surgery
    Nor that.

    15. wear makeup in public
    16. wear perfume in public
    Not interested.

    17. sing in public
    Oh I've done it online, but I'm crowd shy.

    18. date
    mmmhhhhmmmm

    19. have sex
    soon.

    20. have anal sex
    err

    21. masturbate
    I don't turn myself on.

    22. walk around my house naked
    God no, I need the support.

    23. marry a non-Muslim
    Yes please.



    24. get a tattoo
    Nah

    25. have statues/figurines
    Not a problem in my sect

    26. have photos on the wall
    Not a problem in my sect


    27. have a dog
    Like animals but prefer human company.

    28. pet or hold a dog
    I've always done this, ever since I was a child and parents never told me off.

    29. travel alone
    This never seemed a problem except from a safety angle.

    30. earn interest
    31. pay interest
    We all did it anyway.

    32. eat during the day in Ramadan
    Did this once when out on a date, but will generally still fast whilst around Muslims. I actually enjoy fasting, the hunger, the anticipation, the good food.

    33. eat and drink with either hand
    Not a problem in my sect

    34. sleep on my stomach
    Not a problem in my sect

    35. sleep through fajr
    I did this for a long time, and stopped feeling guilt long ago too.

    36. wear normal clothes
    My clothes will always be weird

    37. wear clothes that fit
    I'm still self conscious of leering men

    38. go to a rock concert or festival
    can't wait

    39. dance in public
    can't wait

    40. flirt
    I've always done this

    41. go shopping or go out with a non-mahram
    I've gone to most places alone since I was 16


    42. criticize the laws of Islam
    Doing this. But not openly.

    43. have male friends
    Always had male friends

    44. have gay or lesbian friends
    45. have non-Muslim friends
    I've always befriended everyone

    46. make decisions for yourself
    Still getting there

    47. go inside other houses of worship just to look around
    Always done this

    48. get your tarot read for a giggle
    would not have been a problem

    49. draw Mohammed cartoons
    I don't know what he looked like, but I am open to criticising him.

    Fading's additions:

    50. Shaking men's hands
    Always done this

    51. Not watching sex scenes, dancing etc
    I won't watch sexy stuff in front of family members, but always have done on my own
     
    52.  Saying 'four letter words'. 
    I'm English, I curse like a sailor

    53.  Not sitting through boring, stupid, offensive, idiotic khutbas and lectures and saying 'Mashallah!' 
    If I sat through a boring lecture, I'd make it obvious that I was bored.

    54.  Exercise without guilt, and break out of the sedentary lifestyle encouraged among Muslim women.
    Would never feel guilty for keeping active.

    55. Being able to display my country's flag,
    My parents were always nationalistic

    My additions:

    56. Not feeling guilty for defying parents

    57. Going to mixed sports classes

    58. Eating seafood

    59. Visiting Non-Muslims in their homes and staying over

    60. Using communal changing rooms and showers

    61. Going inside pubs

    62. Going out in the evening and not just during daylight hours

    63. Not feeling guilty for having impure thoughts

    64. hugging male friends



    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #22 - November 14, 2008, 01:27 AM


    63. Not feeling guilty for having impure thoughts




    This is a huge one and it takes getting used to. We're so conditioned to feel guilty for thinking (just thinking!) things that I have to keep reminding myself that my thoughts are private, no one is listening in.

    It's so liberating to know that my mind is my own business and no one else's.

    Though it has no bridge,
    The cloud climbs up to heaven;
    It does not seek the aid
    Of Gautama's sutras.

    - Ikkyu
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #23 - November 14, 2008, 10:53 AM


    63. Not feeling guilty for having impure thoughts




    This is a huge one and it takes getting used to. We're so conditioned to feel guilty for thinking (just thinking!) things that I have to keep reminding myself that my thoughts are private, no one is listening in.

    It's so liberating to know that my mind is my own business and no one else's.


    yep, our mind is our own - but it profits from a bit of discipline, just the same. The things we think and fantasy about (especially if we think very often and hard about them) have a tendency to become things we do, sometimes.
  • Re: Land of the Free
     Reply #24 - November 14, 2008, 02:53 PM

    Interesting, Muslim husband. I have a Muslim wife but prefer it though, I prefer it in the sense somehow she has to be with me, I don't treat her bad or anything, I love her... But I fear her not loving me and wanting to be with another man, if she was not a Muslim woman, a none Muslim women would not tolerate me, in all honest I need someone to look after me thats the type of woman I prefer I want my wife to look after me, lay with me make me feel good (not just in sex) but just love and affection. A none Muslim woman would not want to be my babysitter in other words.
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