The written script of the day of judgement and heaven

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- BerberElla
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The written script of the day of judgement and heaven
OP - January 07, 2009, 11:27 AM

One of my memories of islamic discussions with the muslims in my life, would centre around the day of judgement, the script/diolgue from the moment you die, to the moment you are judged, and beyond, was always laid out very clearly to me.

For instance, if I saw my father did not have enough good to get into heaven, I would apparantly say "I can not give you any of mine".

When in reality I know I would say "I would give you all my hasaana to get you into heaven even if it meant I went hell" my father would tell me that I would have no choice, that what we would say was already planned out for us, and that I would refuse him because that is what I am "programmed" to say.

I would be completely baffled that my will would be gone, I couldn't for the life of me wrap my head around the idea that I would not be in control of my own wish to be good and self sacrificing.

God depicts us as being selfish even at that moment, as being too afraid and desperate to save our skin, that those of us who would leap in front of a car to save a life on this world, would no longer be able to access that part of ourselves on the day of judgement.

I would NOT be able to argue my case, my limbs would speak, my ears would speak, all of them would say what they were programmed to say, and I would be unable to speak of my violition.

Did this bother anyone else when they were a muslim?

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: The written script of the day of judgement and heaven
Reply #1 - January 07, 2009, 11:42 AM

Never heard of this before, is there there any source you can provide as I want to read more on this.

This bothers me a lot though, as does the idea of heaven itself. You stated in another thread that in heaven we will not feel negative emotions because God has taken this away from us. He has taken the very thing which makes us human away from us in heaven so what was the point of this life in the first place if in the end we will simply turn into mindless robots with no concious thought in heaven?

You will not be who you were on earth, so considering this how does God judge us on judgement day if he is judging a completely new species to whom we once were?

God is psychotic.

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Re: The written script of the day of judgement and heaven
Reply #2 - January 07, 2009, 11:50 AM

Quote from: PeruvianSkies on January 07, 2009, 11:42 AM
Never heard of this before, is there there any source you can provide as I want to read more on this.

This bothers me a lot though, as does the idea of heaven itself. You stated in another thread that in heaven we will not feel negative emotions because God has taken this away from us. He has taken the very thing which makes us human away from us in heaven so what was the point of this life in the first place if in the end we will simply turn into mindless robots with no concious thought in heaven?

You will not be who you were on earth, so considering this how does God judge us on judgement day if he is judging a completely new species to whom we once were?

God is psychotic.

No source as of yet for the stuff my dad told me about the saving him from hell part, but:

Quote
Supposed a woman was not in love enough with her husband in this life and would not like to take him again! And… how come that a woman accepts to share her husband with all this number of hoors?

Actually, we have to realize that the dwellers of Paradise are not going to be ruled by the same nature of passion that used to rule them in this life. This is such as hatred and jealousy. They will have a totally different psychology from that
they used to have in this life. It is the special psychological nature of the people of Paradise, which Allah has described in the Qur'an in Surah 43, verse 7. This is when He said the meaning of:

*{And we shall remove from their hearts any rancor}*

Source

Talks about the change of our nature.

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Re: The written script of the day of judgement and heaven
Reply #3 - January 07, 2009, 11:58 AM

I was also led to believe even here in this life we had little free will. It was always stated that 'its already written in the book'

In other words what happens to you is aready written somewhere and hence we have little control of in our life.

The concept of pre-destination in Islam can be confusing depending on the angle the Imam is tryong to cover.

I've never heard of the idea of not being able to share your deeds with others. But then if you could there would be no need judging. I mean in a court of law you cannot alleviate the sentnce of your father if you popped up and said I'm a good girl so use that as compensation for him. Each person owns their justice based on their deeds.

However I did read somewhere where the good deeds of the Christians would be used to compensate for the bad deeds of the Muslims so the Muslims could get into paradise.

Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
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Re: The written script of the day of judgement and heaven
Reply #4 - January 07, 2009, 12:01 PM

Quote
However I did read somewhere where the good deeds of the Christians would be used to compensate for the bad deeds of the Muslims so the Muslims could get into paradise.

what? making others work for them?
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Re: The written script of the day of judgement and heaven
Reply #5 - January 07, 2009, 12:03 PM

Quote from: a.ghazali on January 07, 2009, 11:58 AM
I was also led to believe even here in this life we had little free will. It was always stated that 'its already written in the book'

In other words what happens to you is aready written somewhere and hence we have little control of in our life.

The concept of pre-destination in Islam can be confusing depending on the angle the Imam is tryong to cover.

I've never heard of the idea of not being able to share your deeds with others. But then if you could there would be no need judging. I mean in a court of law you cannot alleviate the sentnce of your father if you popped up and said I'm a good girl so use that as compensation for him. Each person owns their justice based on their deeds.

However I did read somewhere where the good deeds of the Christians would be used to compensate for the bad deeds of the Muslims so the Muslims could get into paradise.

It wasn't the fact that I couldn't alleviate his sentence because of them needing to own their own justice, it was the fact that my mouth would refuse when he asked me, which he would, he would ask everyone who knew him in this life to help save him from the fire, but that we would all refuse because that's what the script says we will do.

It's not that it's unnaceptable to to the balance, but that we didn't even have a choice in what our mouths would say when we refused.

Don't even get me started on predestination lol what kind of god would predestin someone straight into hell.

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Re: The written script of the day of judgement and heaven
Reply #6 - January 07, 2009, 12:04 PM

Quote from: diotima on January 07, 2009, 12:01 PM
Quote
However I did read somewhere where the good deeds of the Christians would be used to compensate for the bad deeds of the Muslims so the Muslims could get into paradise.

what? making others work for them?

All your good deeds IS belong to me

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Re: The written script of the day of judgement and heaven
Reply #7 - January 07, 2009, 12:06 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on January 07, 2009, 12:04 PM
Quote from: diotima on January 07, 2009, 12:01 PM
Quote
However I did read somewhere where the good deeds of the Christians would be used to compensate for the bad deeds of the Muslims so the Muslims could get into paradise.

what? making others work for them?

All your good deeds IS belong to me

No, dear - you are a hell-bound murtad, just ask Ahmed Bahgat!

(but it fits in well with the general behaviour of the moslem conquerors in North-Africa and elsewhere...)
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Re: The written script of the day of judgement and heaven
Reply #8 - January 07, 2009, 12:28 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on January 07, 2009, 12:03 PM
It wasn't the fact that I couldn't alleviate his sentence because of them needing to own their own justice, it was the fact that my mouth would refuse when he asked me, which he would, he would ask everyone who knew him in this life to help save him from the fire, but that we would all refuse because that's what the script says we will do.

It's not that it's unnaceptable to to the balance, but that we didn't even have a choice in what our mouths would say when we refused.

There is a Hadith that does say we could plead for help from the messenger when we get up to paradise. So in a sense we do may have some free will to ask for mercy.

This hadith was basically to scare the mujahadins from taking more than their allotted share of the booty:

Sahih Muslim 20:4505 - One day the Messenger of Allah stood among us (to deliver a sermon). He talked about the misappropriation of war booty, and declared it to be a serious matter and a grave sin. Then he said: I shouldn't find that any of you should come on the Day of Judgment with a growling camel mounted on his neck, and should appeal to me for help saying: ?Messenger of Allah, help me.? and I should say: I have no authority to help you; I already communicated to you. I shouldn't find that any of you should come on the Day of Judgment with a bleating ewe mounted on his neck, and he should say to me: ?Messenger of Allah, help me,? and I should say: I have no authority to help you; I conveyed to you. I shouldn't find that one of you should come on the Day of Judgment with a Person crying loudly mounted on his neck, and he should say to me: ?Messenger of Allah, help me,? and I should say: I have no authority to help you; I conveyed to you. I shouldn't find that any one of you should come on the Day of Judgment with fluttering clothes wrapped round his neck and he should say to me: ?Messenger of Allah, help me,? and I should say: I have no authority to help you; I conveyed to you. I shouldn't find that any of you should come on the Day of Judgment with a heap of gold and silver placed on his neck and he should say to me: ?Messenger of Allah, help me.? and I should say: I have no authority to help you; I already conveyed to you the warning from the Almighty.

Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
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Re: The written script of the day of judgement and heaven
Reply #9 - January 07, 2009, 12:39 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on January 07, 2009, 12:04 PM
All your good deeds IS belong to me

Here are a couple hadiths that indicate the Jews and Christians would be saddled with the sins of Muslims on the day of resurrection. By punishing the unbelievers for the sins of the believers he is able to display both his wrath and his mercy!

SM 37:6666 - Allah's Apostle said: No Muslim would die but Allah would admit in his place a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire.

SM 37:6668 - Allah's Messenger said: There would come Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with as heavy sins as a mountain, and Allah would forgive them and He would put in their place the Jews and the Christians.

It's amazing what Allah can do.

Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
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Re: The written script of the day of judgement and heaven
Reply #10 - January 07, 2009, 12:46 PM

i don't think that is what is meant a.ghazali. from what i recall: there is place reserved for us in jannah and jahannam, and if we get paradise, someone will take the place that could've been ours.

I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
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Re: The written script of the day of judgement and heaven
Reply #11 - January 07, 2009, 12:56 PM

Quote from: awais on January 07, 2009, 12:46 PM
i don't think that is what is meant a.ghazali. from what i recall: there is place reserved for us in jannah and jahannam, and if we get paradise, someone will take the place that could've been ours.

Not sure there Awais, the hadith says, the Muslim will come with sins the weight of a Mountain. Theerefore s/he has sinned a lot and deserves to go to hell. But Allah will say you are a Muslim what I will do is instead of putting you in hell I will take a Jew of Christian and place them there in your place.

It doesn't make sense anyway because elsewhere it says the Jews and Xthians will be going to hell anyway.

Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
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Re: The written script of the day of judgement and heaven
Reply #12 - January 07, 2009, 01:28 PM

some muslims will go to hell, but they will get out eventually. being muslim isn't a free pass, but it helps.

I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
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Re: The written script of the day of judgement and heaven
Reply #13 - January 07, 2009, 01:30 PM

Quote from: awais on January 07, 2009, 01:28 PM
some muslims will go to hell, but they will get out eventually. being muslim isn't a free pass, but it helps.

I'm quite sure the majority of muslims will go to hell. Hell is meant to be a temporary punishment and heaven is granted after it. However I'm quite sure unbelievers are there for eternity.

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Re: The written script of the day of judgement and heaven
Reply #14 - January 07, 2009, 09:35 PM

I knew about how the limbs will be used to witness, but I never considered it from the point of view of free will. I saw it from the point of view of the victim, I thought the victim will be able to use its own limb to give an unbiased andd true witness of the event.

"Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
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Re: The written script of the day of judgement and heaven
Reply #15 - January 07, 2009, 10:01 PM

Oh, yes! I remember all too well.

My mouth would say "Oh, Allah! I have gossiped!" or "I ate pork!" or "I sucked dick!"

My eyes would say "Oh, Allah! I've watched...porn!"

My ears would say "Oh, Allah! I've listened to music!"

My legs would say "Oh, Allah! I danced!".

And so on...

Plus I remember the part where everyone would be running away from each other. The pregnant mother will give birth to her child and run away, as not to be accused of a crime. Everyone will run from anyone they've ever know.

Gosh, it used to scare the shit out of me. It still does, actually.

"Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name!"
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Re: The written script of the day of judgement and heaven
Reply #16 - January 08, 2009, 12:03 AM

Quote from: Iggy on January 07, 2009, 10:01 PM
Oh, yes! I remember all too well.

My mouth would say "Oh, Allah! I have gossiped!" or "I ate pork!" or "I sucked dick!"

My eyes would say "Oh, Allah! I've watched...porn!"

My ears would say "Oh, Allah! I've listened to music!"

My legs would say "Oh, Allah! I danced!".

And so on...

Plus I remember the part where everyone would be running away from each other. The pregnant mother will give birth to her child and run away, as not to be accused of a crime. Everyone will run from anyone they've ever know.

Gosh, it used to scare the shit out of me. It still does, actually.

Ya that too, I assumed the limbs will generally be just used against perpetrators of the sin, even if against the owner.

"Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
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