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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and ex-Muslims who now believe in another (Abrahamic) religion to critisize Islam or Muslim culture?
  • Only ex-Muslims should be allowed to critisize Islam (and Muslim cultures) - 1 (3.2%)
  • Only non-alligned ex-Muslims should be allowed to critisize Islam (and Muslim cultures) - 1 (3.2%)
  • Ex-Muslims of all kinds can critisize Islam but not never-been-Muslims - 0 (0%)
  • If non-muslims want to critisize Islam or Muslim culture they should be very careful and very sensitive - 0 (0%)
  • It doesn't matter who critisizes Islam and the culture, just as long as the criticism is valid - 28 (90.3%)
  • Other (please specify) - 1 (3.2%)
  • Total Voters: 31

 Topic: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?

 (Read 5085 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     OP - February 10, 2010, 12:56 PM

    Here's my question, a while ago I was reading a forum that also has ex-Muslims on it, and one of them said that he had no interest whatsoever in ever reading the opinions of kuffar on Islam or Muslim cultures. I have read this sentiment being echoed  on other places and sometimes even here there is a sentiment of non-Muslims or (Abrahamic) ex-Muslims not being able to comment on Muslim religious or cultural affairs

    Do you agree or disagree with the sentiment? Please share your thoughts.

    I hear what you're saying. You're spinning my head around.
  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #1 - February 10, 2010, 01:28 PM

    A stupid sentiment. Mohammed criticized Judaism, Christianity, and Pre-Islamic Paganism. Muslims who say non-muslims should never criticize Islam must themselves never criticize any other religion, ever.
  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #2 - February 10, 2010, 01:53 PM

    I'd like to know who went with option 1  Roll Eyes

    Anyhow I went with anyone can criticise as long as criiticism is valid, althought I disagree with this also. I think anyone has the freedom to criticise, even whether or not their criticism is valid.

    Bit of an obvious poll, not sure why you started it?

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  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #3 - February 10, 2010, 01:57 PM

    There seems to be a lot of people on forums like this about Islam and ex-Muslims with the opinion that non-Muslims shouldn't be allowed to criticise Islam or more specifically Muslim cultures because they are usually bigots. Or that non-Muslims should have a lower "place" and there are certain things they shouldn't say lest they be percieved as orientalists or bigots.

    Poll ws to see what actual ex-Muslims thought here.

    I hear what you're saying. You're spinning my head around.
  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #4 - February 10, 2010, 02:03 PM

    but that should not be a problem right John? You being an ex-muslim and all.
  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #5 - February 10, 2010, 02:05 PM

    A) You assume too much, or that was a false question trying to ascertain something, you won't find anything out
    B) Say I am an ex-Muslim, does that mean I would be happy with non-Muslims being shut out?

    I hear what you're saying. You're spinning my head around.
  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #6 - February 10, 2010, 02:14 PM

    You're very defensive John and I cant think of the reason why.  I dont care whether you are an exmuslim or not, we have all sorts here and we dont treat anyone differently.  I just dont get why who you are is such a closely guarded secret, its helps posters to see where you are coming from and empathise with you as a person better..

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  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #7 - February 10, 2010, 02:17 PM

    Nothing defensive here, you called the poll pointless and so I was saying I didn't think it was pointless
    Blackdog is trying to get a bio out of me (he has tried before) and I am telling him I don't wish to post anything like that.

    Forget empathy or understanding, we are all anonymous here, so I wish to remain anonymous.

    I hear what you're saying. You're spinning my head around.
  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #8 - February 10, 2010, 02:36 PM

    Other. To specify:

    Poll is based on a false presumption, namely baseless propaganda by the FFI/jihadwatch crew that this forum is "PC" and does not tolerate criticism of Islam from never-been-Muslims unless one is equally critical of all religions.

    The obvious position of almost everyone here is going to fall under the fifth poll option, and I have a feeling whoever picked the first option did so as a joke or to be a dick.

    fuck you
  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #9 - February 10, 2010, 02:38 PM

    No false presumptions here, I would understand if someone had the opinion that only ex-Muslims should be able to criticise Islam.

    And it has nothing to do with FFI, I have no freaking idea what jihadwatch is either, it was just based on what I read somewhere and I wondered if other ex-Muslims shared that opinion.


    I hear what you're saying. You're spinning my head around.
  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #10 - February 10, 2010, 02:51 PM

    Nothing defensive here, you called the poll pointless and so I was saying I didn't think it was pointless
    Blackdog is trying to get a bio out of me (he has tried before) and I am telling him I don't wish to post anything like that.

    Forget empathy or understanding, we are all anonymous here, so I wish to remain anonymous.


     grin12

    Fair enough. I'll stop.
  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #11 - February 10, 2010, 02:57 PM

    Nothing defensive here, you called the poll pointless and so I was saying I didn't think it was pointless
    Blackdog is trying to get a bio out of me (he has tried before) and I am telling him I don't wish to post anything like that.

    Forget empathy or understanding, we are all anonymous here, so I wish to remain anonymous.

    Thats the point - we're all anonymous here so you dont need to be so secretive

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #12 - February 10, 2010, 03:05 PM

    Valid criticism should always be accepted but only thing that bothers me when people have double standards - this is usually applicable to religious ex-muslims and religious non-muslims, but nonetheless it's still valid criticism.

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #13 - February 10, 2010, 03:32 PM

    It's not wrong for anyone to criticise anything. Period.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #14 - February 10, 2010, 04:49 PM

    It's not wrong for anyone to criticise anything. Period.


    FU


     grin12
  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #15 - February 10, 2010, 04:53 PM

    No false presumptions here, I would understand if someone had the opinion that only ex-Muslims should be able to criticise Islam.

    And it has nothing to do with FFI, I have no freaking idea what jihadwatch is either, it was just based on what I read somewhere and I wondered if other ex-Muslims shared that opinion.




    Don't worry, I get where you are coming from, not because I've seen ex muslims saying only ex muslims can criticize islam, but muslims say non muslims can't criticize islam, and there could be a connection for some with that.

    I personally don't care who does, as long as it's valid, and makes a point, the persons background doesn't make too much of a difference......however...........I do sort of feel weirded out by religious people, from other religions, who believe insane things of their own, crticizing, it just feels very wrong and weakens their position I think.

    But like I said, anyone is free to do it, I just don't pay attention if it's not valid.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #16 - February 10, 2010, 05:53 PM


    Muslims are never shy about criticising other religions. Even if they don't do it to the face of kuffars, they do so in tiny and large ways. Dawah is a very important part of Islam, and they even have the audacity to present it as a civilising mission, when the heart of dawah is contempt for all belief systems other than Islam. Yet Muslims get very upset when anyone dares to subject their religion to scrutiny.

    So to be frank, I think this thin skin aspect of Islam is pathetic and loathsome and hypocritical. To use an old British term about those who like to dish it out but then squeal when they get it in return, the Ummah don't like it up 'em.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #17 - February 10, 2010, 09:09 PM

    I have absolutely no right to suggest who should be able to criticize what. Though, I'll be honest and say that I get a feeling to punch the person criticizing Islam and pointing it's problems and flaws, and then say "But my X religion (usually Christianity) rocks and pwns Islam".

    "In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan

  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #18 - February 10, 2010, 10:49 PM

    I have absolutely no right to suggest who should be able to criticize what. Though, I'll be honest and say that I get a feeling to punch the person criticizing Islam and pointing it's problems and flaws, and then say "But my X religion (usually Christianity) rocks and pwns Islam".


    +1

    It is never wrong for anyone of any background to criticise Islam.

    But my question to JohnMuslim is:
    Is it wrong for ex-muslims like us to mock and be suspicious of non-muslims from religious or politically extreme backgrounds who criticize Islam?


    So yeah, criticise whatever you want.. but we equally reserve the right to question your motives and agendas. There is a big difference between Dave Chappelle cracking a black joke VS Nick Griffin cracking a black joke.. dontchyathink?

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #19 - February 10, 2010, 10:56 PM

    On one hand, agendas can sometimes drive people to hate, but on the other, hate of a religious group and hate of a race rank differently on the pyramid of moral evils

    Anyway, I can understand your point.

    I hear what you're saying. You're spinning my head around.
  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #20 - February 10, 2010, 11:00 PM

    honest opinion should never be shackled, right or wrong, its only a perspective

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #21 - February 10, 2010, 11:02 PM

    On one hand, agendas can sometimes drive people to hate, but on the other, hate of a religious group and hate of a race rank differently on the pyramid of moral evils

    Anyway, I can understand your point.


    Yeah, sort of. I do think there is a gradient to these things. Which is why I often have issue with people who label insulting Muslims as "racism". It's really not, though can often take that shape. The line is a bit blurry. In my mind there is a big difference between talking about a religious group in disparaging terms versus talking about a racial group in disparaging terms. You choose your religious beliefs, though it can be arguable that you don't (we're all born into something).

    But hate of people is never a good route to take, regardless of what they believe. People can change. A lot of us are sensitive to anti-muslim hate because we were often at some point in our lives a believing and tribalistic musulman. I myself fit the terrorist profile perfectly, and if I can change, so can others who are still stuck in that mindset.


    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #22 - February 10, 2010, 11:15 PM

    honest opinion should never be shackled, right or wrong, its only a perspective

    Z10 - whats with the avatar - who drew the picture?

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  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #23 - February 11, 2010, 07:27 AM

    Yeah, sort of. I do think there is a gradient to these things. Which is why I often have issue with people who label insulting Muslims as "racism". It's really not, though can often take that shape. The line is a bit blurry. In my mind there is a big difference between talking about a religious group in disparaging terms versus talking about a racial group in disparaging terms. You choose your religious beliefs, though it can be arguable that you don't (we're all born into something).

    But hate of people is never a good route to take, regardless of what they believe. People can change. A lot of us are sensitive to anti-muslim hate because we were often at some point in our lives a believing and tribalistic musulman. I myself fit the terrorist profile perfectly, and if I can change, so can others who are still stuck in that mindset.




    There is one? :S Do I fit it?
  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #24 - February 11, 2010, 08:18 AM

    Z10 - whats with the avatar - who drew the picture?


    Ah, that's just my wife's photo-shopping of my picture

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #25 - February 11, 2010, 08:22 AM

    isnt option 1 and 3 basically saying the same thing?  Huh?



    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #26 - February 11, 2010, 02:34 PM

    Ah, that's just my wife's photo-shopping of my picture

    cool  Afro

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #27 - February 11, 2010, 03:05 PM

    Forget empathy or understanding, we are all anonymous here, so I wish to remain anonymous.


    I think the anonymity is necessary but something we all hate. We try to get around that by sharing as much about who we are with others as possible without putting ourselves in danger. Some people on the forum have met each other. I think it's great that that has happened. Another barrier between communication between ex-Muslims has been lifted. A lot of Muslims would hate for ex-Muslims forming stronger communications with each other.

    But ofcourse, that's just my opinion. You are able to withhold any info about yourself, no questions asked.


    Anyhow I went with anyone can criticise as long as criiticism is valid, althought I disagree with this also. I think anyone has the freedom to criticise, even whether or not their criticism is valid.

    Bit of an obvious poll, not sure why you started it?


    That's my position too.

    isnt option 1 and 3 basically saying the same thing?  Huh?


    Yes.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #28 - February 11, 2010, 03:52 PM

    There is one? :S Do I fit it?


    Yeah, you fit it even more than me. You're actually middle eastern. :S

    But guys like just need a few visits to some flagged islamist sites and the security services in our respective countries will be on our asses faster than Mo on a little girl.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Is it wrong for non-Muslims and religious ex-Muslims to critisize Islam?
     Reply #29 - February 11, 2010, 04:59 PM

    As long as the criticism is valid and credible, then it doesn't matter where it comes from.
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