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Theme Changer

 Topic: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"

 (Read 312794 times)
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  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1560 - November 03, 2014, 03:08 PM

    Maybe put a reference in the acknowledgements and as a dedication to CEMB, but not on the front cover. If put it on the cover or whatever I think it would dissuade people from getting the book and reading it, especially Muslims and especially especially non-investigative Muslims.


    Yep, I agree - an acknowledgement of the efforts of all here on CEMB.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1561 - November 03, 2014, 03:13 PM

    Re the format, just wanted to say that typically Abu Ali's name would be on the front and details like acknowledgements or copy editors would be, if at all present, in the inside cover. It's convention, and it's neater, and I think for this particular book you need to give it as much of a polished appearance as possible to get it taken seriously by a more skeptical audience, and yes--that does include usernames and CEMB stuffed somewhere inconspicuous if mentioned in the first place. Just my opinion, doubter_seeker.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1562 - November 03, 2014, 03:42 PM

    But I will make it clear that I am a Muslim - albeit an Agnostic Muslim - to hopefully reduce the defence and bad reaction.

     


    I don't know man.  Genuinely liberal muslims get just as much heat as apostates because they are seen as apostates by the majority.

    Case in point: Imam Usama Hassan.

    Stay Safe    far away hug

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1563 - November 03, 2014, 03:43 PM

    Re the format, just wanted to say that typically Abu Ali's name would be on the front and details like acknowledgements or copy editors would be, if at all present, in the inside cover. 

     

    The original author's name and then Abu Ai's name would be underneath that as translator and commentator.


    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1564 - November 03, 2014, 03:48 PM




    I don't know man.  Genuinely liberal muslims get just as much heat as apostates because they are seen as apostates by the majority.

    Case in point: Imam Usama Hassan.

    Stay Safe    far away hug


    Agreed!



    The original author's name and then Abu Ai's name would be underneath that as translator and commentator.




    On the inside cover could be acknowledgements.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1565 - November 03, 2014, 03:49 PM

    @ TDR, yes, precisely.

    Not to undermine anyone else's effort who may have contributed or your efforts putting it in that format and editing, doubter_seeker. It's really very nice of you contribute, especially right after getting here.

    And Abu Ali is so insanely humble that he may not even want the spotlight, but I would be remiss if I didn't mention that he should be getting all of the credit for this project, and he's been working on it for so long. Acknowledgements and editors should be somewhere separate and less conspicuous, as is the case for most any book, no matter how many people supported the author/translator along the way.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1566 - November 03, 2014, 04:26 PM

    .......................

    And Abu Ali is so insanely humble that he may not even want the spotlight, ................

     I hate humble people., finmad finmad    and  tha is the problem with Abu Ali., otherwise being smart, articulate., well educated and a thoughtful guy like    Abu Ali  would have not given chance to fools like this TURN COAT  ISLAMIC BIMBOS like this one..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1567 - November 03, 2014, 05:31 PM

    This is coming along great. I just looked through the preview links you posted.

    Now the hard part will be convincing muslims to actually read it .   
     Thinking hard 

    To me it seems like a lot of Muslims are actually struggling with the exact words of the Qur'an.

    They go through all kinds of hoops and loops to justify they are actually following it.

    That alone should spark some interest if it will be available for them to read within their own area of comfort.

    I am more worried about how to have Muslims discover it in the first place.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1568 - November 03, 2014, 05:49 PM

    To me it seems like a lot of Muslims are actually struggling with the exact words of the Qur'an.

    They go through all kinds of hoops and loops to justify they are actually following it.

    That alone should spark some interest if it will be available for them to read within their own area of comfort.

    I am more worried about how to have Muslims discover it in the first place.


    If anyone on it post links on ummah.com in signature; post to fb, twitter etc.; info cards in various places such as in books in theology section of libraries or bookshops and noticeboards (1)

    (1) - Like this https://www.facebook.com/INTACTWA/photos/pb.270975786271761.-2207520000.1415036371./741270715908930/?type=1&theater

    https://www.facebook.com/INTACTWA/photos/pb.270975786271761.-2207520000.1415036371./741270702575598/?type=1&theater

    https://www.facebook.com/INTACTWA/photos/pb.270975786271761.-2207520000.1415036822./686072944762041/?type=3&theater

    https://www.facebook.com/INTACTWA/photos/pb.270975786271761.-2207520000.1415036759./763143873721614/?type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Ffbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-xap1%2Fv%2Ft1.0-9%2F10622827_763143873721614_9134182504192375869_n.jpg%3Foh%3D9edaf9f16a817d854244fe4b6939be41%26oe%3D54AAE35B%26__gda__%3D1424501383_9cf5e57f78bdabedbfc85f006281fe24&size=960%2C720&fbid=763143873721614

    https://www.facebook.com/INTACTWA/photos/pb.270975786271761.-2207520000.1415036759./763143830388285/?type=3&permPage=1

    https://www.facebook.com/INTACTWA/photos/pb.270975786271761.-2207520000.1415036822./762380400464628/?type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-xap1%2Fv%2Ft1.0-9%2F10689709_762380400464628_6132754351256561585_n.jpg%3Foh%3De83968a140a84de5fd0d3bf8870f2d8d%26oe%3D54D71FB8&size=720%2C960&fbid=762380400464628
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1569 - November 03, 2014, 06:08 PM

    I've started reading. I would be suprised if it doesn't go viral.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1570 - November 03, 2014, 06:26 PM

    Re the format, just wanted to say that typically Abu Ali's name would be on the front and details like acknowledgements or copy editors would be, if at all present, in the inside cover. It's convention, and it's neater, and I think for this particular book you need to give it as much of a polished appearance as possible to get it taken seriously by a more skeptical audience, and yes--that does include usernames and CEMB stuffed somewhere inconspicuous if mentioned in the first place. Just my opinion, doubter_seeker.


    I think that's a good idea, just have Abbas Abdul Nour's name and Abu Ali's on the title page, and then the rest could go on some other page. The acknowledgments, should be mentioned as far in the book as possible, like you said. Thanks for the suggestion!

    Yep, I agree - an acknowledgement of the efforts of all here on CEMB.

    See above.

    Stay Safe

    It's probably better just to stick with nick names, just to be on the safe side. If this goes viral, God knows what could happen.... I have to keep reminding myself that before I post the final PDF/eBook/whatever versions, I have to manually inspect the meta-data in the files and make sure that there's nothing in there that could identify me....

    And Abu Ali is so insanely humble that he may not even want the spotlight, but I would be remiss if I didn't mention that he should be getting all of the credit for this project, and he's been working on it for so long. Acknowledgements and editors should be somewhere separate and less conspicuous, as is the case for most any book, no matter how many people supported the author/translator along the way.


    He did all the work, especially the really hard part which is actually translating this beast. We owe him quite the debt. All I did was some copy/pasting and some formatting!

    I've started reading. I would be suprised if it doesn't go viral.


    Get the popcorn ready then!

    I am more worried about how to have Muslims discover it in the first place.


    We could go all trolling on Facebook/Twitter/[insert social media website here] and spamming links, but that probably wouldn't be very respectful. We could probably figure out a means to get it featured somewhere, and let other people make it go viral! Anyone here is good with this marketing stuff?

    I'm going to go with what you guys suggested here and push other contributors' names (including mine) far back in the book. Will make the effort look more polished and professional, and hopefully people will take it seriously.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1571 - November 03, 2014, 06:39 PM

    It may be worth looking at other books' examples for that acknowledgements page, doubter_seeker. Abu Ali would be the one to actually write something in dedication if that's his intention, so I'd just wait for him to do this and then you can fit it into your format to see if he likes it.

    As for acknowledgments and the name of editors, whoever he decides to include in that list (note that, in most cases, editors and contributors are not mentioned by name in published works at all) will usually be put on a separate page in small font. By design, it's only going to be looked at by people who are genuinely curious about the publisher/year/contributors/et cetera. It will be easy to gloss over, which is useful, since I'd imagine we'd better avoid making sudden movements to scare off potential Muslim readers. So I'd hold off on making that page until Abu Ali has finished this project and knows what he wants to do as far as all of this goes.

    Again, really nice of you to help him out. Until recently, most of my spending money came from editing jobs, so I know it's a lot of work. But it's fun, right?
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1572 - November 03, 2014, 07:26 PM

    It may be worth looking at other books' examples for that acknowledgements page, doubter_seeker. Abu Ali would be the one to actually write something in dedication if that's his intention, so I'd just wait for him to do this and then you can fit it into your format to see if he likes it.

    As for acknowledgments and the name of editors, whoever he decides to include in that list (note that, in most cases, editors and contributors are not mentioned by name in published works at all) will usually be put on a separate page in small font. By design, it's only going to be looked at by people who are genuinely curious about the publisher/year/contributors/et cetera. It will be easy to gloss over, which is useful, since I'd imagine we'd better avoid making sudden movements to scare off potential Muslim readers. So I'd hold off on making that page until Abu Ali has finished this project and knows what he wants to do as far as all of this goes.


    Like you said, I noticed that there was a separate page in some books that has some publisher/editor info and stuff right after the title page, but I really can't see what to include in it, because this is an independent work. Maybe I could have a note about the work being in the public domain? So I won't include anything like that for now, and follow your suggestions to keep at it Abu Ali's discretion.

    Again, really nice of you to help him out. Until recently, most of my spending money came from editing jobs, so I know it's a lot of work. But it's fun, right?

    It is actually quite fun, surprisingly. Some of the work is tedious and repetitive, but the end result is worth it. So satisfying when you have something looks clean and professional!

    Anyways,

    I updated the title page to show just author and translator:
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/13gN_NlKZUC9ytlkPk2ioaz-tmQKrt2jX9dx7CKm-VnU/edit#

    Also an acknowledgement's page (that will go at end, unlike most books where it is at the front)
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1L0fSxZrR4zwiaDswOi940CZBzx2Csdu7QefQHCFD0JY/edit#
    If anyone can suggest a better blurb than my placeholder text, go ahead!

    Thanks!
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1573 - November 03, 2014, 07:35 PM

    Good stuff. If when you have it fairly finally organised in terms of formatting tell us and then we can perhaps divvy up the chapters/sub-sections of the chapters to read through for English corrections.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1574 - November 03, 2014, 07:38 PM

    Yeah, definitely see what he wants to do, although the notes about the edition and where (ha) it was published can also go on this inside cover page, but that's kind of nitpicky and I'm sure it'll get worked out by the project's conclusion.

    And yes, there were projects I worked for months on, tedious definitely sounds right. Grin Thanks again!  Smiley
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1575 - November 03, 2014, 07:58 PM

    Good stuff. If when you have it fairly finally organised in terms of formatting tell us and then we can perhaps divvy up the chapters/sub-sections of the chapters to read through for English corrections.


    Sure thing. If you want, send me a PM with your Google account (you can make a throwaway if you want) and you can start making suggestions right now. Google Docs has a 'suggestions' mode where you can make edits non-destructively (like this https://paperpile.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/google-docs-suggestions.png). And we always have version control in case we need to go back in time. You could start looking at parts where formatting is marked '90%' or more, those should be Ok for review.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1576 - November 03, 2014, 09:13 PM

    Sorry if this has been asked. Is there a ordered format of the translation posted yet? I have been reading the main thread but it is a little slow when I need to go back to a previous comment(s).
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1577 - November 03, 2014, 10:19 PM

    Sorry if this has been asked. Is there a ordered format of the translation posted yet? I have been reading the main thread but it is a little slow when I need to go back to a previous comment(s).


    You can accessed the translation sections here:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aL_G1aVg0dZTGejLEp-qkyg_y2ToGihQhlJorr-iwGs/edit#gid=0

    Under "Forum Link", there is the link to where the content is posted for the chapter, under "File Number" you can click on the links to go to the documents that are being prepared for publishing.  There's always Aziz's version http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/docs/My_Ordeal_With_The_Quran/My_Ordeal_With_The_Quran-en-latest.pdf which has most of Chapter 4 nicely formatted.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1578 - November 04, 2014, 10:28 PM

    Been too busy today so haven't had time to do any translating. Since 8.30am until now (almost 10.30) I've just been on the go!!

    I'll get back to it tomorrow evening, inshallah  grin12
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1579 - November 06, 2014, 02:09 PM

    Thanks for the link.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1580 - November 07, 2014, 06:54 PM

    The Arabic text was a great find btw - and because of that (I put some of the text into a Google search) I've found the whole text set out in a blog - nice and easy to read with chapter links at the side and everything!  Afro

    http://me7nati.blogspot.co.uk/
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1581 - November 07, 2014, 09:56 PM

    The Arabic text was a great find btw - and because of that (I put some of the text into a Google search) I've found the whole text set out in a blog - nice and easy to read with chapter links at the side and everything!  Afro

    http://me7nati.blogspot.co.uk/


    Good find!

    Nice to see more references to the Arabic text. This one is neatly organized though. I think this one has the same errors as the Arabic version, notice how the numbers are inversed?
    Like 83 instead of 38 (a sign that an OCR was used, or done by hand..?)

    The websites reminds me: I'll need to remember to make sure that the PDF version has  proper indexes (so that your PDF viewer can list all the chapters and go from one to another easily...)....

  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1582 - November 07, 2014, 10:15 PM

    btw I don't know if you copy the text as soon as I post it, but I tend to post it then read through it and edit bits.

    For example I think I posted the last bit just before 10pm (UK time) and then spent the next 15 minutes editing bits.

    For some reason mistakes stick out better if I post it rather than go through it before posting - don't ask me why lol.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1583 - November 07, 2014, 10:20 PM

    btw I don't know if you copy the text as soon as I post it, but I tend to post it then read through it and edit bits.

    For example I think I posted the last bit just before 10pm (UK time) and then spent the next 15 minutes editing bits.

    In general, I wait a for a few hours, or the next day. So most of the copies I have should be fine. I'll have to double check eventually though.

    For some reason mistakes stick out better if I post it rather than go through it before posting - don't ask me why lol.

    Yeah, I know how that feels. I review something, print it, and somehow the mistakes suddenly appear on the paper.... grr.r... finmad
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1584 - November 07, 2014, 11:11 PM

    This might be thinking too far into the future but if the english copy of the book really takes off, we could try looking for a professional translator to get it into urdu, hindi and bengali as well.


    Countries like Pakistan might be able to ban physical books in bookstores but it's impossible for them to ban a file floating around on the internet.


    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1585 - November 07, 2014, 11:23 PM

    Oh and I think once it's finished, the final product should be distributed on the internet for free as a pdf file.

    Alot of exmuslims and questioning muslims have their online transactions monitored by their family so putting a pay wall or something would prevent it from being read as widely as it should be.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1586 - November 08, 2014, 12:32 AM

    If we can get any volunteer professional translator's, that would be great. Otherwise they cost so much money!

    I think there's a consensus here that it will released for free. The English version is right now the main focus, with a beautiful PDF and ePUB copy. Perhaps I could get into other formats like a website or something but we will see later. Also, I really want to get a clean Arabic version done too, later on, I might get working on that too. It's mostly a copy and paste job, cleans up, and what not. In the Google Drive folder, there's a "Arabic Transcription" folder where I'm trying to experiment with a chapter to see what kind of results I can get. Once of the challenges with Arabic is ensuring a good readable font without making the text sooooo huge.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1587 - November 09, 2014, 10:29 PM

    Just a bit more of; Part 5 - The Breaking Off Phase, to go, then I will be on the final chapter - chapter 3  Afro
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1588 - November 09, 2014, 11:19 PM

    You're progressing really quickly through this book, you have about 32 pages left and you're done! Good job Abu Ali! I'm having trouble keeping up with him actually, and have email notifications setup so I can have his progress marked as soon as possible! I think we could get a first relatively finished draft of this by mid-December.

    For the formatting work on my side, Chapter 5 is pretty much done, and so is Chapter 2. I'm working on Chapter 4 right now, and it going to take me a while because it's the longest Chapter in the book, and there's alot of Arabic that needs to be formatted correctly. Some of the Parts in Chapter 4 rely on the Arabic text of the Qur'an, so I'm including it alongside the English translation. The remaining chapters 1 and 3 should be pretty easy because they're short and don't have too many references.

    I'll post some pictures later on because I need some feedback on the Arabic font selection and the layouts.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1589 - November 09, 2014, 11:20 PM

    The recent translations are just  like the member  intros of this forum.
    And for guys like me who came to their senses later in life, his regrets about wasting his youth, hits a chord with me too.
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